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Thread: NXGL-15M Large Freighter

  1. #1
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    NXGL-15M Large Freighter

    Has anyone ever wanted to ship cargo? Lots of cargo? What a pity the Freedom transport can only carry 400,000 cubic meters of cargo, or at 25% density, about 100,000 tons of cargo.

    It would require 45 trips by a single Freedom transport to transport the necessary material for a single Galaxy class starship. Even worse, the Freedom only has a top speed of warp 9, meaning that a few well-designed pirate vessels could pace or even catch it.

    That is not enough cargo, and it is moving too slow. Even more useless the the extra power being wasted for large evacuation levels and other advanced equipment. What is needed is a no-nonsense freighter that carries cargo, more cargo, and even more cargo, and delivers it quickly.

    Presenting the NXGL-15M Large freighter:

    SpaceDock stats:
    Size: 8 (3000 SU)

    Hull, Resistance, SIF
     
    Outer Hull - 32 SU
    Inner Hull: 32 SU

    Resistance (Outer) (2) - 0 SU
    Resistance (Inner) (2) - 0 SU

    Class 1 SIF (Protection 40/60) - 20 SU
    - 10 Power at max protection
    Backup SIF (half strength - Protection 20) - 10 SU
    - 2 Power


    Crew, Life Support, Gravity, Consumables, Medical, Recreation, Transportation, Fire
     
    C/P/E: 120/5/125
    Quarters:
    90 Basic - 9 SU
    30 Expanded - 6 SU
    5 Luxury - 5 SU

    Basic Life Support - 32 SU
    - 6 Power

    Reserve Life Support - 16 SU
    - 3 Power

    Emergency Life Support (48 shelters) - 16 SU

    Gravity - 8 SU
    - 4 Power

    Consumables (1 year) - 12 SU (no replicators on board, as food for 1 year + Food replicators takes up more room than simply storing the food)

    Medical Rating: 5 - 25 SU
    - 5 Power

    Recreation Rating: 4 - 32 SU
    - 8 Power

    Turbolifts (no Jeffries Tubes) - 16 SU (chosen to prevent easy hiding spots for stowaways or other unwanteds)

    Fire Suppression system - 8 SU
    - 1 Power


    Cargo and escape pods
     
    Cargo Holds - 1,844 SU (61,466,000 cubic meters)
    - 2 Power

    Escape pods - 0 (the ship is the escape pod)


    Warp through Power through EPS
     

    Warp Propulsion
    Nacelles - 5E (5/9/9.2) - 75 SU
    - Plasma Injector Type A (2 hours max warp) - 2 SU
    - Package 8 upgrade for Max Warp (+0/+0/+.792) - 16 SU
    - Package 10 upgrade for Sustained Warp (+0/+.982/+0) - 20 SU
    - Effective Speeds: (5/9.982/9.982)
    - Total Size = (75+2+16+20 = ) 113 SU
    - 50 Power

    Impulse Drive (Class 1) - 5 SU
    - 8 Power provided

    RCS - 8 SU
    - 2 Power

    Class 2/B Warp Drive (140 Power) - 34 SU
    - +140 Power

    Auxiliary Power (23 systems) (115 Power produced) - 69 SU (so the ship can go to max warp with its warp core ejected if necessary, frees the ship from needing antimatter fuel)
    - +115 Power

    EPS - 40 SU
    - Transfer +100 power - 10 SU


    Bridge through Communications
     
    Bridge - 40 SU

    Cargo Separation - 8 SU (primary purpose is to drop off the main cargo module and pick up a new one)
    - 10 Power, once

    Computer - 16 SU
    - 5 Power

    ODN - 24 SU

    Navigational Deflector - 32 sU
    - 5 Power
    Backup (needed due to its top speed) - 8 SU
    - 5 Power

    Long Range Sensors (Class 3, to avoid running into something) - 12 SU
    - 5 Power

    Lateral Sensors (Basic+3, mainly to track cargo pallets) - 22 SU
    - 5 Power

    Navigational Sensors (to avoid bumping aka starship roadkill) - 16 SU
    - 5 Power

    Autopilot (Skill 4, coordination 3, needed to simply steer the ship) - 15 SU
    - 1 Power

    Navigational Computer - 0 SU
    - 0 Power

    IDF (4 main systems, 2 backup systems, main rating = 9l, backup = 6) - 72 SU
    - 6 Power (2 on at all times due to the sheer stress)

    Attitude Control - 2 SU
    - 2 Power

    Communications System (Class 3, "Get out of the way, get out of the way- never mind") - 6 SU
    - 2 Power

    Emergency Communications ("Hello Starbase, We just smeared a Galaxy starship across the front of our cargo hold, can you send a spatula?") - 1 SU
    - 2 Power

    Emergency Communications (in the Cargo hold, in case of separation, "Hey, is anyone gonna remember us?") - 1 SU
    - 2 Power


    Tractors and Transporters
     
    Tractor beams
    Primary Cargo (4 Delta beams normally operate at strength 10, at 2.5 m/s^2 tops, actually used to maneuver the ship rather than the cargo, as the ship is lighter) - 48 SU
    - 60 Power when on (2 beams are operating at full strength just to keep the cargo steady while the ship moves)

    Alpha Beams for shuttle bays (4) - 12 SU
    - never used when moving the main cargo block, if needed, the Delta emitters are shut down, and Cargo Operations is stopped)

    Alpha Beams for Cargo Handling (internal)
    - only used when moving small chunks of the main pallet, or the individual 8 ton Standard Shipping Containers, need 15 power when doing so

    Transporters:
    Personnel: 6 Personnel pads, Class 3 emitter, Class A coil - 7 SU
    - 4 Power
    Emergency: 12 emergency pads, Class 1 emitter, Class C coil - 10 SU
    - 7 Power
    Cargo: 8 tons cargo, Class 1 emitter, Class C coil - 44 SU
    - 41 Power


    Security through Shuttles
     
    Security Rating 1 - 4 SU

    Internal Pressure Doors - 16 SU (Force fields might lose power, solid doors don't need power)

    Shields
    4 Class 1 generators (160 protection)
    Type 0 Grid
    Distortion Amplifier (Alpha) (Threshold 50)
    Class 1 Recharging systems
    - 92 SU
    - 64 Power

    Backup Generators - 28 SU
    - 64 Power (not used at same time as regular, so no overlap)

    Shuttlecraft (25 Size of shuttles, 2 lines of 7 bays of size 1, 1 bay of size 11) - 50 SU


    More data in next posts.
    Last edited by Coalition; 06-13-2008 at 11:38 AM.

  2. #2
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    Power Usage:
     
    Always on (52 Power):
    - SIF, Basic LS, Gravity, Recreation, Turbolifts, Fire Suppression, RCS, Computer, IDF, Attitude Control, Communications, Personal Transporters
    - Standard mode when in orbit and waiting for the next load of cargo

    Cargo Ops (115 Power):
    - As Always on but minus Recreation, plus Medical, Lat Sensors, Autopilot, Delta tractors or Cargo Transporters or Cargo Tractors
    - When loading cargo, nobody is to be in the Holodeck or goofing off. Medical is to be on standby in case of injuries, while the lateral sensors and autopilot are used to keep the ship steady during loading/offloading operations. The cargo transporter is never used at the same time as the Delta tractor beams, primarily due to inefficiency (it takes 41 power to move 8 tons of cargo up or down, compare that to a shuttle carrying cargo).

    Emergency Evacuation (69 Power):
    - As Always on minus Recreation, plus Backup LS, LR Sensors, Autopilot, Emergency Comms, Emergency Transporters
    - Primary usage here is either getting everyone off the ship, or getting people on board. Either way, nobody is supposed to be in the holodeck goofing off. Backup LS is brough online to ensure that as people are brought up, they will be able to breathe. The autopilot is used to hold the ship steady while emergency commubications are used to coordinate shuttle and transporter Operations, while the emergency transporters are doing their job.

    Impulse (78 Power, not counting 8 from Impulse engines):
    - As Always on, plus Medical, Nav Deflector, LR Sensors, LAt Sensors, Nav Sensors, Autopilot
    - This is the basic cruise mode while in a star system. Medical will be ready in case of trouble, while the sensors ensure the path of the ship is safe, and the Autopilot drives

    Warp Travel (124 Power):
    - As Always on minus Personal Transporters, plus Medical, Warp, Nav Deflector, Bkp Deflector, LR Sensors, Nav

    Sensors, Autopilot
    - Standard setting for when the ship is cruising between star systems. Once personnel are aboard there should be no need to be transported all over the ship, so the personal transporters are left offline. If an emergency occurs, the Auxiliary power units are brought online. If the Warp core is gone, then the Auxiliary systems are brought online, the Holodeck is turned off (with a physical disconnect of the power supply), and an actual helmsman steers the ship, reducing the power demand to 115 Power, just enough to run the ship at top speed. Slowing down to Warp 9.8 allows for enough power to reactivate the Autopilot.

    Combat (aka scream and run) (132 Power):
    - As Always on minus Recreation minus Personal Transporters, plus Backup LS, Medical, Nav Deflector, LR Sensors,

    Lat Sensors, Autopilot, Emergency Comms, Shields
    - This is the scream for help mode. Nobody should be goofing off, and if an enemy is close enough to need shields up, then nobody is going to be beaming off. If an enemy is distant enough, the shields will be dropped, and people will be beamed off, if the ship cannot get to warp. Primary goal here is to get Warp back online and run away.


    The NXGL freighter is an odd mix of high-speed warp nacelles, with multiple sets of upgrade nodes along each strut and nacelle, attached to a very streamlined main hull, all sitting on top of a huge rectangular block.

    The main Warp Reactor is capable of providing 140 power, enough to maintain Combat Power lvels, plus a little spare. For while at Warp, and heavy cargo handling is needed (more than 10 tons), the Bridge is notified and the auxiliary reactors are brought online and channeled directly to the tractor beam(s). This allows up to 500,000 tons (or up to 62,500 SSC) to be moved at once. This usually means that the front 5 layers are moved at a time if speed is required. If not, then enough layers can be moved to expose the problem SSC.

    The cargo bay is made up of 1.875 million SSC, each 2.5x2.5x5 meters in height, width, and length. They are arranged 100 tall, 125 wide, and 150 long, making the carried cargo block up to 250 meters tall, 312.5 meters wide, and 750 meters long. Each SSC is rated for up to 8 tons, including container. Larger loads can only be carried if they are loaded while in orbit. Still, 8 tons of cargo is enough to carry over 32 photon torpedoes, ignoring bracing and support needed. When carrying a full load of cargo, to avoid having the gravity plates deforming the deck (and the lowest SSCs), the gravity underneath the cargo block is set to .1G.

    The Delta tractor beams are mounted on the four rear corners of the cargo section, and are normally used to guide the cargo as the ship is maneuvered around it. Since the mass of the cargo is often ten times the mass of the ship, the tractors do not load the cargo so much as move the ship. Nobody is allowed near the cargo module while it is being loaded, as the Delta beams are operating at ninety percent power. If a piece of equipment or person got in the path of th beam, it would be accelerated at over one thousand Gs. The beam array is set up to automatically turn off all four emitters if any register an interruption, plus kill switches are placed on the bridge and on the power relays to the tractor beams, but by the time even the fastest automatic system turns th beam off, it is too late for the person or equipment.

    The Alpha cargo tractor beams are mounted with two at the top of the cargo bay on moveable mounts to allow for moving slices of the cargo block. The other two are used for cargo handling from the Cargo transporter to the cargo bay. This is used when someone wants an SSC delivered immediately, rather than waiting for the block to be unloaded and broken down in orbit. Given the power needs and the interruption, several Captains have offerd to deliver the cargo via lithobraking, but no customer has taken them up on the offer yet.

    The docking tractor beams are plaed to the left and right of the forward shuttle bay, which handles most of the Small Craft Operations. The fourteen small shuttle bays along the sides of the cargo section are used for emergency evacuation of that section only. Placing a Shuttlepod back in the bay is easily done with the cargo tractor beams, and people who are used to maneuvering the SSC have been known to overcorrect when moving a shuttlepod, and crack its hull. The other option is to use the shuttles in the forward bay to move the shuttlepods in place. The forward shuttle Bay normally carries four size 2 cargo handling shuttles, plus three shuttlepods, but this can vary depending on customer preference.

    For ship separation, the main hull is designed to detach vertically from the cargo module, and move away. Redocking is a complicated and lengthy process, and best performed at a Starbase. The Cargo section contains the second set of emergency communications, one of the main IDF, one backup IDF, the four Delta tractor beams, two of the Alpha tractor beams, and small batteries (fed from the ship's grid) to power the emergency communications, emergency lighting, and low gravity.

    There are no escape pods. The ship is designed so if there is a problem with the warp core, the warp core is jettisoned and the auxiliary reactors are brought online. Unlike standard warp cores, the antimatter is fed in at the top, and the matter at the bottom. This keeps the most dangerous parts of the warp core (the antimatter) as close to the skin of the ship as possible. In addition to the standard core jettison equipment, there are passive ejection systems in place. The method used is an electromagnet holding the antimatter pods to the ship, and compressed gas tubes pushing the antimatter pods away. If there is any failure of power, the electromagnet fails, and the compressed gas shoves the pod away from the ship. A built in battery on all Starfleet pods allows for one minute of containment before boom. A similar system is set up for the warp core, and the gravity plating is not installed under the warp core and antimatter pods, to prevent any potential problems.

    By avoiding the issue with escape pods, the passengers and crew can utilize the existing life support, backup life support, sensors, communications, living quarters, consumables, recreation, medical equipment, deflectors, Fire Suppression, computer, IDF, transporters, Security systems, shields, and the hull's own radiation shielding. The basic ship's philosphy is you don't get rid of the crew, you get rid of the problem. The Auxiliary Reactors are merely compact fusion plants, and the biggest problem is keeping the fusion plant running, not having it overload. The plants are designed so only the minimum amount of fuel is present in each reactor, and an active system is needed to pump fuel into the plant. If there is any sort of problem, the active system fails, and fuel is no longer being pumped into the reactor. The reaction dies, and the problem is over.

    If the crew and passengers absolutely have to leave the ship, the shuttle bays are close enough to the living quarters and have sufficient space that only four are needed to evacuate two hundred people, and the shuttlepods handle the remaining people by shoving 3 being in each. However space will be extremely cramped, so it is recommended that a quick course is set for the nearest habital space. This is why so much effort was made to ensure that the main hull could be lived in even in emergency conditions.
    Last edited by Coalition; 06-13-2008 at 11:39 AM. Reason: Bad line breaks from Notepad

  3. #3
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    Upgrades/Cargo Configuration/Shuttlebays:
     
    Two proposed ugrades merely replace the core with the 5E3 and 5E6 versions. The 5E3 version, with the same upgrades to keep the current top speeds will free up 1 SU, while the 5E6 version will free up 5 SU. Although the improvements are minor, the ability to carry more cargo for the same amount of fuel is an important consideration.

    A third proposed upgrade is to replace the existing Navigational Deflector with two to three Auxiliary Deflectors, for a total of 3-4 Auxiliary Deflectors. Using some of the saved space for additional power systems, the design can save 2 to 13 SU. Two Auxiliary Deflectors would be kept on at all times to prevent a stray electron from turning the ship inside out.

    Cargo format:
    Cargo handling is done by activating Auxiliary Power, transporting the selected SSC to the cargo Transporter pad, then performing whatever work is required. Hazardous/non-transportable cargo is kept at the rear of the cargo bay, right next to the massive door, for easy jettisoning in case of any problems.

    The Main Cargo Bay is sixty million cubic meters, with one meter of space on the back, each side, and two meters along the top for inspection and maintenance. On the fron there is six meters of clearance to allow for sections of the cargo to be moved out to allow for physical examination of a specific container.

    Cargo loading operations are performed by placing laser pointers and rangefinders along the front of the cargo block, pointing forward, to the sides, top, and bottom. By measuring the ranges, and seeing how far from the walls of the cargo hold, the ship can know to a fraction of a degree how accurate the block is to alignment inside, along with the distance to the nearest millimeter how far along the cargo block has moved and needs to be moved.

    An additional 20,000 cubic meters is used, 10,000 per side, to allow for additional access to the main cargo region, and to provide Engineering space in case the tractor beams or power feeds have technical issues. Cargo cranes, grav sleds, portable tractor projectors, and other protable cargo manipulation equipment is stored in here, to make the crew's life easier. Not easy, just easier.

    The remaining 1.446 million cubic meters is divided up into a large storage bay along the dorsal area of the main hull, plus a series of internal bays that run along behind the shuttle bays. The main storage bay is 833,000 cubic meters; 175 meters long, 140 meters wide, and 34 meters tall, large enough to fit a Defiant Heavy Escort inside with an average of two meters of space all atound the vessel, allowing for a shirt-sleeve environment when performing maintenance or repairs. A cargo hold taking up 33,000 cubic meters is attached at the rear of the Defiant hold, and is normally used to keep repair equipment, spare parts, and weaponry when a Defiant is being given a lift. This smaller bay is 7.6 meters long, 135 meters wide, and 32 meters tall. The sides of the bay open over the main hull's cargo bay, allwoing for easy access to transfer an SSC of spare parts to the Defiant hold, and removing an empty. This access is via a sealing door, and is normally closed. The top of the door has pressure sensors that physically prevent the door from opening if anything with a pressure of over 4 millibars, or about half the average pressure made by a human foot. It will also not open (again physical and electronic safeties) if the Defiant bay is a vacuum.

    The remaining 580,000 cubic meters are divided into a pair of 280,000 cubic meter holds, stretching along the sides of the ship from the rear of each side of the wrap-around shuttle bay to nearly the nacelle pylons in the rear. The final 20,000 cubic meters is a central cargo bay that runs underneath the main hull of the ship, and above the main cargo section. Cargo is moved from the side cargo bays in the SSC it was stored in, and is unpacked here. When an SSC is emptied, the empty is put back in the side cargo bay, and another is brought on board to replace it. The doors to the side cargo bays are normally kept closed, to prevent any potential depressurization. Airlocks are provided every fifty meters to move an SSC to the interior of the ship for utilization.

    Shuttlebays:
    Two sets of seven bays, each holding a Size 1 shuttlepod for emergency evacuation only. They are located every 110 meters along both sides of the cargo section, and have sufficient room inside to squeeze four humanoids each. Each pod also has a display showing all hmanoids within sventy-five meters (horizontally) of the bay to ensure nobody gets left behind. As the cargo bay is only supposed to be visited by ship's crew, not any passengers, there is less need to worry about someone wandering around in there.

    If an emergency happens, anyone in the cargo bay is supposed to head to the nearet shuttlebay, and get inside the shuttlepod. Once everyone within seventy-five meters is inside the shuttle, the door automatically closes (there is a manual override to do it faster), and the shuttlepod launches. From there, the tractor beams on the main hull will pick up the pod and guide it into an empty slot. If there are too many pods to pick up, empty onesa re jettisoned or moved to the cargo bay to make room.

    The entrances to the shuttlebays are painted with a variety of symbols and glowpaint so in the case of total loss of power and lighting people will know which way to go. The midpoint betwen each shuttle is also painted with the same materials, just different colors and symbols so people know which way not to go. The catwalks around the cargo bay have slides that can be triggered in case of emergency, and are powered by pressurized air, so even without power they still work.

    The forward shuttle bay is wrapped around the front of the main hull of the freighter, and has the capacity for 11 Size of shuttles. There is a walkway below the brridge so anyone moving along that walkway can look over the shuttle bay to see the current status.

    Standard cargo shuttles are the type 10, modified so they only carry the bare minimum of materials, and as much cargo capacity as possible. This allows two SSC to fit inside, and by installing tractor beams ventrally (and the associated Auxiliary reactors), more SSC can be carried underneath.

    The cargo transporter is never used to transport cargo up for the block, as even moving one SSC every 5 seconds, it would take about three and a half months. If extra cargo transporters are available that can handle 8 ton loads this will reduce the time.


    Species modifications:
    Ferengi:
     
    Ferengi:
    The Ferengi modification is designed by Ferengi, for Ferengi. The most obvious change (noticed by anyone who visits the upper decks) is that the ceilings are lower. They are the perfect height for Ferengi, but other species have to bend over in order to avoid head impacts. The bridge has been modifed so that the Captain's chair is extremely comfortable, and is taller than everyone else's chair as well. This allows the Captain to see everything that is going on, and puts him above the rest of the bridge crew. There is a well to the front right of the bridge where humanoids and other species can transport in to, but it is low enough that they still have to look up at the Captain. If they try to approach, the ramp rises up faster than the ceiling, so they still wind up hunched over when they get closer. Both methods are useful psychological ploys.

    The raised ceiling allows for additional displays for the Daimon, but is mainly used as a large screen display so the Daimon can watch his favorite 2D show. The armrests have attachment points to store snacks and drink, allowing the Daimon to goof off even on the Bridge. The chair is well padded and fully articulated via power adjustment, allowing the chair to adjust itself to the Daimon's body, and stay tht way. A second chair or set of chairs is placed behind the Daimon's chair so female(s) can sit there and perform oo-mox on the Daimon while he is relaxing. Armrests are provided so their arms don't get tired.

    Although the chair is self-adjusting, the Daimon will often deactivate that feature after purchasing the ship, to remind the crew that it is His chair, not anyone else's.


    Romulans:
     
    Part of the Structure used to house the defiant bay is removed, and used to install a cloaking device, and a Tal Shiar Luxury cabin. Fifteen megatons of cargo traveling at the speed available to this design makes the Romulan Government very interested in making it gets to where it needs to go, and nowhere unauthorized. As a result, the cloaking device is used to make sure nobody spots it. The tal Shiar operative is responsible for making sure nobody ever goes near the cloaking device, and making sure it never leaves her control. As a result, the only way to access the cloaking device is through the Tal Shiar's main living room. No other access points exist for performing maintenance, without the use of a heavy duty cutting torch. A temperature sensor in the cloak room will alert the operative if anything starts to go off.

    The cabin is also provided with a repeater showing where the ship is, its current heading, speed, and copies of its sensor readouts and active communications channels. It also shows a current view of the bridge, and what every person at every station is doing. This is explained to the crew that if they want the cloak, they get the Tal Shiar surveillance package along with it. The repeater is attached to a recorder, so the ship's entire trip is copied into the databanks to ensure it never went off course without Tal Shiar permission.

    A special type of Tal Shiar operative is placed on board the ship. This special operative is one who doesn't mind a boring job watching a critical piece of Romulan technology, and has a lot of paperwork to catch up on.Often a Tal Shiar operative or group will be assigned to one of these vessels after completing a mission, so they can do a necessary job, and complete their report at the same time. Life Support for the personnel is paid for out of the Tal Shiar budget, summed up at the end of the bidget cycle. Often a little extra will be paid out of the budget, so an accountant cannot track Tal Shiar personnel around the Romulan Empire.

    There is extra space from this that is not used by the cloak or the Tal Shiar living quarters. This can be used for transportation of beyond top secret cargo, extra operatives, basically anything the Tal Shiar wants to put in there. he Captain and crew are told not to ask. Those who do are often dismissed from the ship's crew, if they don't disappear first. Thise who are dismissed tend to count themselves lucky.


    Klingons:
     
    The Bridge has been modified to include a sand arena in case there are disagreements about command decisions, or in case the crew gets bored and the Captain wants some entertainment. The fact that it is in the bridge means that the winner can go back to work immediately afterwards with minimum disruption. The Defiant Bay is set to carry more short-term and smaller combat craft instead of larger vessels, so attacking vessels are crippled rather than destroyed. This lets the crew have some fun in the middle of a cargo run. The high warp drive is used to deliver cargo, and catch up to pirates, never to run away. The more territory they cross while delivering cargo, the better chances of finding pirates and having fun, right?


    Economics/Real World:
    Estimated cost/resources needed:
    Cost is 7 per SU, or 21,000 Cost Units.

    Real-world comparison:
    The United States imports 2 tons of cargo per person per year. One of these ships would show up every 9-10 days and be able to handle the entire US imports.

    Assuming 1 billion people on a planet, and same rate of imports as the United States, means one of these ships will show up every 2-3 days. Assuming it makes a round trip, that means one ship could handle a round trip from Alpha Centauri to Earth and back, loading and unloading 15 million tons at each planet.



    Phew, done.
    Last edited by Coalition; 06-13-2008 at 11:41 AM. Reason: Adding line breaks because tabs don't show

  4. #4
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    Granted I see the need for large cargo movers . . . wouldn't the ship shown in the Players hand book with its replaceable cargo modules not be enough with a large enough fleet . . . given the size of the federation having a merchant marine fleet that size wouldn't be impossible.
    Wouldn't the lack of replicators and industrial replicators mean a lack of food variety in between port stops (as they won't always have what you want where you want it) and that certain repair parts will not be available as they take precious cargo space that could be used in hauling goods.
    The lack of escape pods (i.e. life rafts . . .in space!(insert massive echoing sound here)) not meet with Federation building codes?
    The threshold of 50 points per shield . . . means that this thing unescorted will be a giant warp 9 capable pirate target.
    Size 1 shuttles unless you go with one of my remote defesnse platform designs or something similar will not be able to put up an adequate defense against any determined opponent. Therefore may I suggest size 2 shuttlebays to fit standard sized fighter/couriers (i.e. the peregrine seen from DS9)
    Why no phasers? Even the Oberth, a science vessel, had type Vs . . . Same goes with the Anteres Class transports/cargo vessels.
    Otherwise . . . great design . . . and as you point out something that is much needed as the largest cargo vessel that I can think of off the top of my head is size 6

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JALU3 View Post
    Granted I see the need for large cargo movers . . . wouldn't the ship shown in the Players hand book with its replaceable cargo modules not be enough with a large enough fleet . . . given the size of the federation having a merchant marine fleet that size wouldn't be impossible.
    Wouldn't the lack of replicators and industrial replicators mean a lack of food variety in between port stops (as they won't always have what you want where you want it) and that certain repair parts will not be available as they take precious cargo space that could be used in hauling goods.
    The lack of escape pods (i.e. life rafts . . .in space!(insert massive echoing sound here)) not meet with Federation building codes?
    The threshold of 50 points per shield . . . means that this thing unescorted will be a giant warp 9 capable pirate target.
    Size 1 shuttles unless you go with one of my remote defesnse platform designs or something similar will not be able to put up an adequate defense against any determined opponent. Therefore may I suggest size 2 shuttlebays to fit standard sized fighter/couriers (i.e. the peregrine seen from DS9)
    Why no phasers? Even the Oberth, a science vessel, had type Vs . . . Same goes with the Anteres Class transports/cargo vessels.
    Otherwise . . . great design . . . and as you point out something that is much needed as the largest cargo vessel that I can think of off the top of my head is size 6
    The only largest cargo capacity in all of the seven Steven Long books was the Cardassian Det'tar, with 800,000 m^3. The next largest is the Romulan Desara, at 420,000 m^3. Everything else was 400,000 cubic meters or less. What was the name of the freighter? This ship has over seventy-five times the capacity of the largest cargo ship that I have seen in the Steven Long books (Spacedock, SRM1-5, or the Dominion War book), and over a hundred times what the Capital ships can store. Plus, you only need 125 people to move 15 million tons/60 million cubic meters of cargo. How many people are needed per ton of cargo/cubic meter in the freigher? The key is that this ship is not designed for the independant trader, it is designed to move lots of cargo at once.

    For the Replicators versus food variety, using repair parts plus Replicators for only 1 year requires 16 SU, using repair parts plus stored food requires 12 SU, a savings of 4 SU. Add to that the ship can store enough for 1 year, and it is not expected to be more than 1 month from a heavily industrialized/populated world. This ship is never meant to explore the dangerous beyond. The whole purpose of this ship is to deliver lots of materials to a destination, at an exceedingly high rate of speed. Not to mention, the ship can simply have seveal different types of meals set up for the year, and eat whatever they want. In a port, they stock up on whatever they have the least of, plus variety. This is a freighter, not a cruise ship or luxury liner.

    For Escape pods, they can only support one person for 3 months (86 person-days). This ship can support up to 250 people for one year, and the lack of replicators means all you need to make dinner is a heat source and a pot of water. Escape pods have a total delta-V of 3600 m/s^2, this ship will outrun a Galaxy. Escape pods have enough thrust to take off and land on a planet (or .1c for 1 day), this ship carries cargo shuttles. An Escape pod can form a gaggle, the ship has a holodeck. Escape pods have a small emergency beacon, this ship has a standard and emergency communications array. For more information, see here http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3f.html#lifeboat

    For the lack of protection, it has more to fear from natural hazards than from pirates. How many vessels out there can reach 9.982 (2 - Prometheus and Defiant, and only for 12 hours top)? How many can maintain that speed for longer than 3 days hours (none, even Class J Plasma Injectors are only good for 48 hours). This ship can outrun any pirate ship out there, and only decelerates when it is safe (aka near a starbase or other orbital facility, or when the scope is clear). A pirate will have to start out ahead of the freighter, and if the freighter manages to pass the pirate at all, they will never catch up. If a pirate even pops up, that is what the communications are for. The other option is figuring out that the pirate means to stop them, and just letting the pirate splatter on the front of the cargo module (15 million tons moving at warp 9.982 versus a <1 million ton ship = grab a spatula). It will mean that the hull is badly damaged, but they get to paint a little silhouette on the side of the cargo container, after it is rebuilt.

    If it will be traveling into an area where it will need extra weaponry, the Dorsal cargo bay can carry 1 Defiant inside, and up to forty more in the cargo hold itself, stacked vertically, side by side. They use up all the cargo capacity, though doing so makes for a great surprise. Normal operations means this never goes into dangerous areas, and if it is that dangerous, then a Ship should have been sent there long before.

    With no weapons and weak shields, the ship's Captain understands that her job is to unload the last layer of cargo (a little less than 400,000 cubic meters) and keep on going, while the pirates try to figure out how they can fit it all in their holds. Out of the 7 Steven Long books, only six ships total have enough cargo capacity to store all of that.

    Given a lack of detailed labeling on the outside of the Standard Shipping Containers, they will be going through twelve thousand five hundred large boxes (2.5x2.5x5 meters each) to see what is inside. Also due to their mass (up to 8,000 kilograms per), each container has to be brought in by shuttle or tractor beam, as few cargo transporters can handle that mass.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    I'm puzzled how long will it take to load unload such a ship? (Is there just one Cargo transporter or several?)
    Unless most of its Cargospace is done by handling Containers docking externally in a matter of minutes Loading procedures will take a looong time. On the other hand the most important question that comes to my mind is what is going to be transported in such large quantities? Finished goods? Almost all are replicable. Raw materials?
    Also without replicators you'll probably have to use the Rules for ships in the 23rd Century (see SRM 4 page 6) where consumables use 2*size in SU's negating the saving you intended. Also Replicators offer the chance to get spare parts without the need to store them save for the most complicated parts.

    This vessel is for sure a truly minimalistic design. It reminds me of the Cargo Drones from Star Trek: The Lost Episodes by Steve Kenson
    (http://members.aol.com/talonstudio/treks/ships.html).

    But those drones get by with just a crew of four.

    Given a lack of detailed labeling on the outside of the Standard Shipping Containers, they will be going through twelve thousand five hundred large boxes (2.5x2.5x5 meters each) to see what is inside. Also due to their mass (up to 8,000 kilograms per), each container has to be brought in by shuttle or tractor beam, as few cargo transporters can handle that mass.
    I'm sorry but there have to be cargo manifests (unless the Quartermaster has an eidetic memory of epic proportions), and every crew of space pirates able to take control of the vessel may just hack the computer (easily done with the right skills) and then take what they want. Alternatively they could space the crew.
    (Ah, I would have put you in an escape pod that could have taken to a habitable planet eventually, but since your vessel has none i generously let you take a walk outside without a space suit.)
    Last edited by Captain Otto; 06-14-2008 at 12:24 PM.
    "Space may be the Final Frontier, but it's made in a Hollywood basement"

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  7. #7
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    The only largest cargo capacity in all of the seven Steven Long books was the Cardassian Det'tar, with 800,000 m^3. The next largest is the Romulan Desara, at 420,000 m^3. Everything else was 400,000 cubic meters or less. What was the name of the freighter? This ship has over seventy-five times the capacity of the largest cargo ship that I have seen in the Steven Long books (Spacedock, SRM1-5, or the Dominion War book), and over a hundred times what the Capital ships can store. Plus, you only need 125 people to move 15 million tons/60 million cubic meters of cargo. How many people are needed per ton of cargo/cubic meter in the freigher? The key is that this ship is not designed for the independant trader, it is designed to move lots of cargo at once.
    I understand the need for cargo. I have family who are merchant marines and understand the value of logistics as a former combat service support solider. However, I think that your vessel has several shortcomings. As Captain Otto said, very minimalistic . . . and even though your vessel can go faster then the escape pods, they are there for those emergencies that you don't plan for, so you have somewhere to go besides the shuttles that maybe shot up or otherwise inaccessable.

    For the Replicators versus food variety, using repair parts plus Replicators for only 1 year requires 16 SU, using repair parts plus stored food requires 12 SU, a savings of 4 SU. Add to that the ship can store enough for 1 year, and it is not expected to be more than 1 month from a heavily industrialized/populated world.
    Again, Capatain Otto made the point for me. The SU savings are negated when using other errata regarding non-replicated dependent vessels.

    Escape pods have a total delta-V of 3600 m/s^2, this ship will outrun a Galaxy.
    You're cheating the system. You can't buy upgrade packages multiple times to up your ship's warp levels by several factors. There is a reason for the different warp engines, to make going that much faster, that much more SU intensive. Sure it says as many upratings as is desired, but if read strickly that's one uprating or downrating per cruise/sustained/maximum.

    If it will be traveling into an area where it will need extra weaponry, the Dorsal cargo bay can carry 1 Defiant inside, and up to forty more in the cargo hold itself, stacked vertically, side by side.
    Great arguement but it doesn't work. I have tried, and been told by others that you can't do it as it breaks the SUs available for that size of vessel. Cargo holds aren't ment to hold entire vessels. If you want to hold another vessel you have to use the rules for shuttlebays, and shuttlebays don't fit craft larger than size 3.

    Again, please don't take these critiques as personal attacks. However, we are giving you our opinion of your vessel, and made recommendations. It's up tp you whether you wish to incorporate those recommendations into your design.

    As for the vessel that I am talking about look at the LUG UFP sourcebook. It has a section for merchant marines and a vessel design which is size 7.

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  8. #8
    First off Welcome to Spacedock Coalition, glad you decided to join our little club.

    The book JALU3 is referring to is The Price of Freedom. The ship template(?) is located on page 70. (Odd, I don't remember ever calling a ship design a template before)


    Ok, few rules clarifications here:
    Warp Speed Up-Grades:
    Steve Long and I had this very same discussion a while back, indeed you may only have ONE upgrade/down grade per cruise/sustained/maximum level.
    Replicators versus Stored Food:
    Captain Otto is correct on that, pre-replicator or simply non-equipped do need twice as much SU's for it's consumables.
    Escape Pods:
    There is no rules saying any single design must have them, but keep in mind there is always that dreaded "Health and Safety" inspection, plus not all needed uses of escape result from combat. Some unforeseen error in any number of systems could force a retreat in to one, not to mention the possibility of portside accidents or sabotage.
    Lack of Phasers:
    Again, nothing saying you must have them (some governments would prefer you remain unarmed).

    As for the design itself, yes you filled a vast gap in the design spread. As far as being "bare bones" hey, there are ship floating about the world to day under the same concept. As the others have recommended - a few tweaks here and there would make this a spectacular and much needed design... or series of designs bulk food, raw materials, fuel tanker, maybe even a colony ship design.

    At any rate, keep it up.
    Last edited by Phoenix; 06-14-2008 at 10:49 PM.
    Phoenix...

    "I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity,
    but maybe we should just remove all the safety lables and let nature take it's course"

    "A Place For Everything & Nothing In It's Place"

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Otto View Post
    I'm puzzled how long will it take to load unload such a ship? (Is there just one Cargo transporter or several?)
    Unless most of its Cargospace is done by handling Containers docking externally in a matter of minutes Loading procedures will take a looong time. On the other hand the most important question that comes to my mind is what is going to be transported in such large quantities? Finished goods? Almost all are replicable. Raw materials?
    The entire pallet is unloaded as a single block. If you tried to use the onboard cargo transporter, it would take a long time. If it could transfer 1 shipping container per second, 24/7, it would take about three weeks to unload the ship.

    For finished goods, try replicating the following in TNG:
     
    Vaccines (Code of Honor)
    Rainwater (The Schizoid Man)
    Dilithium crystals (Booby Trap)
    Ribosomes (The Enemy)
    Dicosilium (A Matter of Perspective)
    Caviar (Sins of the Father) (replicators have never managed to get it right)
    Hytritium (The Most Toys)
    Scientific Equipment (Galaxy's child)
    (Mind's Eye) (Replicated items have noticeable differences at the molecular level)
    Chlorinide (Ethics)
    Ludugial Gold (The Perfect Mate)
    Vendarite Ore (Rascals) (it was valuable enough to attack a Federation ship)
    Power conduits (Phantasms) (even the Starbase had to make it, not replicate it)
    Bio-mimetic gel (Force of Nature)
    Mining equipment (Firstborn) (even though the Duros sisters had Replicators, they still needed to get the equipment)
    Magnesite (Firstborn)
    Gold (Past Prologue ) (gold was still valuable enough for payment)


    or DS9
     
    Various Gems (Move along Home)
    Stem Bolts (Progress)
    Heck, all of DS9 showed trading operations going on. Even when O'Brian needed certain parts, he had to use Nog to do a bunch of trading in order to get the items needed, instead of a Replicator.


    Data's Day shows that Replicators produce single-bit errors.

    Raw materials are always needed. Remember the Particle Fountain from "Quality of Life"? That was supposed to revolutionize Federation mining operations.

    Finished goods will always be needed. Even if a replicator might be able to make the item, but it will still have errors (at the molecular level, and even enough to change the taste). If manufacturing the item and transporting it takes less energy than replicating it, then trade will still prosper. Even if the Replicator can make it for less energy, the molecular and single bit errors mean that the manufactured good would still be superior.

    Of course, Replicators are superior in only one respect - they are more compact than a proper industrial base. They pay for that with power demands, and lower quality goods.


    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Otto View Post
    Also without replicators you'll probably have to use the Rules for ships in the 23rd Century (see SRM 4 page 6) where consumables use 2*size in SU's negating the saving you intended. Also Replicators offer the chance to get spare parts without the need to store them save for the most complicated parts.
    I was going with basic refrigerator and freezer technology. It still requires a cook and galley, it just only needs heat and light, not computer support (except for using the computer as a giant cookbook). Hmm, I'll probably need to allocate a few SU for that. I can probably take it away from the rest of the ship's cargo capacity (or the Defiant Bay). Heck, I'll make the galley 4 SU, so I have 8 SU of repair parts/machine shops, 4 SU of refrigerated food, and 4 SU of kitchen. No beaming of food to individual cabins, everyone comes to the Mess Hall to eat. It keeps people from being hermits in their cabins, and reduces maintenance needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Otto View Post
    This vessel is for sure a truly minimalistic design. It reminds me of the Cargo Drones from Star Trek: The Lost Episodes by Steve Kenson
    (http://members.aol.com/talonstudio/treks/ships.html).

    But those drones get by with just a crew of four.
    How much cargo do the drones carry? If it is less than 1.9 million cubic meters per drone, this ship is still superior. Not to mention the drones are still slower.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Otto View Post
    I'm sorry but there have to be cargo manifests (unless the Quartermaster has an eidetic memory of epic proportions), and every crew of space pirates able to take control of the vessel may just hack the computer (easily done with the right skills) and then take what they want. Alternatively they could space the crew.
    (Ah, I would have put you in an escape pod that could have taken to a habitable planet eventually, but since your vessel has none i generously let you take a walk outside without a space suit.)
    Why slow down? Just open the rear door, and drop off the SSCs while at warp. If a pirate collides with one, even better.

    Escape pods only have 1 day's worth of fuel, and up to 90 days of food, air, and water, divided by how many people are on board. The ship has over 45,000 man-days of food, air, and water.

    Finally, no other ship can even catch up to it.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    52
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    First off Welcome to Spacedock Coalition, glad you decided to join our little club.

    The book JALU3 is referring to is The Price of Freedom. The ship template(?) is located on page 70. (Odd, I don't remember ever calling a ship design a template before)


    Ok, few rules clarifications here:
    Warp Speed Up-Grades:
    Steve Long and I had this very same discussion a while back, indeed you may only have ONE upgrade/down grade per cruise/sustained/maximum level.
    Replicators versus Stored Food:
    Captain Otto is correct on that, pre-replicator or simply non-equipped do need twice as much SU's for it's consumables.
    Escape Pods:
    There is no rules saying any single design must have them, but keep in mind there is always that dreaded "Health and Safety" inspection, plus not all needed uses of escape result from combat. Some unforeseen error in any number of systems could force a retreat in to one, not to mention the possibility of portside accidents or sabotage.
    Lack of Phasers:
    Again, nothing saying you must have them (some governments would prefer you remain unarmed).
    Most of the systems are designed to shut down rather than explode, and the ship requires power to keep the antimatter on board, rather than needing power to eject it. If something does happen and all the antimatter and the Warp core get ejected (a brief power failure), the fusion reactors have enough power to run the ship anyway.

    As to the escape pods, the ship is actually safer than being in them. The transporters can move up to 18 people per turn out of the ship, meaning the whole ship can be evacuated in 14 turns. If something forces the people to escape into the Escape pods, then shuttles and shuttlepods are a much better deal to live in (shuttles have warp capability and decent communications, escape pods don't).

    For the SpaceDock Errata, can a giant list be made, so people know what to download?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    As for the design itself, yes you filled a vast gap in the design spread. As far as being "bare bones" hey, there are ship floating about the world to day under the same concept. As the others have recommended - a few tweaks here and there would make this a spectacular and much needed design... or series of designs bulk food, raw materials, fuel tanker, maybe even a colony ship design.

    At any rate, keep it up.
    You want a colony ship? Take this ship, modify Life Support so it uses 40 units of power, and thanks to the life support rules from the Spacedock book it can support over 1 Trillion people. Add atmospheric capability to the ship, and it can just set down on a planet and serve as the starting colony. Use technology from RVs (where the RV expands to provide for decent size rooms in a vehicle), and the ship can form the starting city. The cargo bay provides the pre-fabbed housing as needed, plus the starting infrastructure. As people arrive to colonize the planet, a pre-fab house is brought out, and they are hooked into the power grid.

    Even worse, try this for a cargo shuttle: Remove as much as possible from a Type 10 shuttle (weapons, shields, long endurance facilities, etc), and you should be able to free up 100 SU. Mount a pair of Delta Tractor beam emitters, plus Auxiliary power to bring them up to full power. Each emitter can now hold 7.5 million tons. So you have this ~40 ton shuttle carrying Fifteen million tons of cargo into orbit.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Ottawa Canada (Ont.)
    Posts
    21
    Is anyone going to hand-draw or otherwise come up with an illustration / cutaway of these Spacedock designs? I love Trek-RPG.Net, but it often fails to complete its profiles with illustrations & its becoming somewhat annoying. Would someone please create black & white mock-up's (even if they're MS Paint creations cut/pasted from a variety of others' designs at ShipSchematics.Net,) to give us a general idea what you're thinking about.
    "We're Starfleet Officers, Mister Kim. 'Weird,' is part of the job."
    - Captain Kathrine Janeway, USS Voyager.

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