It CAN happen here.

[Dan Stack]

Mr. Adams, you make an interesting point. There is an odd worship of "alternative science". A few years ago, everyone was gulping green tea by the gallon and downing red wine with dinner to LIVE FOREVER!!! We learned that eggs will kill you if you look at them for too long. If you come within ten feet of raw meet you'd better be in one of those quarantine suits. And we all avoided sacharin like the plague, all because scientists told us it was true. And now we hear "ooops. We may have been wrong - to get cancer from sacharin you'd need to ingest ten pounds of it daily..."

(Of course, I should talk, I'm the Catholic who practices Tai Chi daily to get in touch with the Tao...)

[REG]

Personally people who commit heinous act or convince people to commit heinous act "in the name of God" are using religion as a political tool.

What better way to rally people to war? Just tell them that if they vanquish the infidel they assured their place in Heaven in the afterlife. Even if they die in the war, their action alone would assure them of their place.

It is a #1 political tool ... right after your family ("think of your children and their future").

[Diamond]

John, you're absolutely right when you say "Today’s rock-solid scientific foundations may be tomorrow’s good laugh as we learn even more about ourselves and the universe". But you're absolutely wrong when you say that science is based upon belief. It's based on DISBELIEF.

Science accepts that our knowledge of things will mature and builds it into the system. All ideas, new and old, must be disbelieved- that is to say, rigorously tested until one can accept it. Newton's law of gravity was rock-solid, tested for centuries and about as accurate as any idea possible. But then Einstein found that under certain conditions (which hadn't been available to test before) Newton's theory was wrong. Or to be more chairatable, incomplete.

The point is that unlike other institutions, those who disprove bad ideas are rewarded. But your evidence has to be good, or you will be disbelieved in turn.

Thus those fringe pseudosciensts who loudly proclaim, "Mainstream science is too closeminded to accept my groundbreaking theory of UFOs/Crystal energies/psykic powers!" are missing the point. ACtually, scientists would be fascinated by such groundbreaking ideas... if only the held up under rigorous, repeatable testing. Extrodinary claims require extrodinary evidence. And a proper scientist's reaction is to disbelieve ANYthing... until it stands up to experimentation and sceptical inquiry.




[This message has been edited by Diamond (edited 04-06-2001).]

[DaveTalley]

this is very cool, and incredibly rare
a calm open discussion of religion/morality/ufos/whatever :-)

I dropped by this site because I am a trek fan, granted I havent played any RPGs for it since the FASA game, I do have a couple sites bookmarked with the Star Trek/Gurps conversions, in case I ever get a group together

I will be back saturday
dave

[Roy Cowan]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by DaveTalley:
this is very cool, and incredibly rare
a calm open discussion of religion/morality/ufos/whatever :-)
</font>

Yes, it is, isn't it?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
I dropped by this site because I am a trek fan, granted I havent played any RPGs for it since the FASA game, I do have a couple sites bookmarked with the Star Trek/Gurps conversions, in case I ever get a group together

I will be back saturday
</font>

Well, as a fellow newbie, let me say welcome aboard! Come back soon!

-- Roy

[Aedh Rua]

I am not certain that the type of preacher who burns books is really so rare these days. Just recently, there have been two cases of Christian persecution against Pagans which were quite brutal.

In the first case, a 12-year-old girl was hounded by her classmates for being interested in Wicca. They apparently followed her around, chanting Bible verses. It might just seem like typical childish behavior, except that in this case it drove the girl to suicide.

In the second case, a woman who attempted to open an "occult" bookstore was run out of her town by death threats. She needed to obtain police protection, to keep from being lynched by people shouting, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live".

Now, in saying this I don't want to single out Christians. I have known people of many religions who were equally hateful, and have known noble and decent people of every relgion, and none.

However, with the current regime in the United States, there is a lot of fear among some of us. Y'all write about dying to defend the rights of others, but I wonder if it might not really come to that. This does not mean I cannot defend myself, but can any person or group stand alone?

I am very glad that there are people of every religious background who do value tolerance.

I just hope that the conflict started by the fundies in this country stays at the level of burning books and threats, rather than burning bodies and bullets.

------------------
Slan agat!

[REG]

Of course, some are not above to burning, vandalizing, or pillaging churches.

It's a sad thing if the entrance to God's House of Worship has a timelocked steel vault door. It hasn't happened yet but...

------------------
Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

[Dan Stack]

Regarding the "commonality of book burning and other intolerances". Let me preface this by stating that I am a New Englander - conservatives in New England would probably be considered moderates in the rest of the country and liberals in New England would probably be considered communists in the rest of the country (that was a joke).

I have seen very little religious intolerance up here. The Catholic church I belong to often has activities with non-Catholic (and indeed non-Christian activities). I've never had an issue with any member of the clergy about Harry Potter, D&D, etc. I know it exists, and even up here to some extent, though I suspect we have it better than most in the USA.

The one issue of intolerance I have run into is regarding my wife's decision to marry me, a damned man. You see, a friend of hers has been taught that since I am a Catholic, I am not a true Christian and therefore have not been saved, and therefore am going to burn in hell. (This person has also has been taught D&D is evil and won't read Harry Potter...) I suppose the consolation I have is that I can visit Mother Theresa there... Ironically, I have read something along those lines on the web - the same fine people who brought you the Dark Dungeons comic...

[Dave]

You and Mother Theresa playing D&D in hell. hehe