It CAN happen here.

[Hugh Casey]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by First of Two:

The problem is not that they're Pentacostals. The problem is that people like this are almost EVERYWHERE. Every Christian organization I've run into has had SOME people like this. They're loud, determined, and organized, which makes up for their being stupid, and makes them entirely dangerous. Which is one of the reasons I left organized religion of any kind.</font>

They are everywhere, but not just in christian faiths. Look at the Talibans in Afghanistan, or the super-ultra zealots on BOTH sides of the Israel/Palestine issue (I had a wonderful conversation with a normally quiet and reserved Jewish gentleman <whom I would normally consider "nice"> in which he told me that he hopes that the Israelis "tie up and shoot those bastards (the Palestinians)like the dogs they are". And he didn't mean the ones throwing rocks... he meant ALL of them!)

And it's not limited to religion. "My country, right or wrong" stems from the same human needs... the need for there to be something greater. The basic tribal urge that binds us. The need to subsume our own identity into something else, and woe betide any who denigrate it.

And alas, this will probably always be with us... Lo, even onto the end of time.

Hugh


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"Sell your soul to the Philadelphia Science Fiction Society... ASK ME HOW!"

[This message has been edited by Hugh Casey (edited 03-30-2001).]

[Protius]

I guess the biggest deal is parents who don't want their kids mixing up the fictional witches with real life cultists in one lump and calling it "cool" and then getting mixed up in all sorts of weird things.

What carries it beyond lead-by-example christianity to what we've seen here is probably the same thing that drives conspiracy theories and riots. People like a cause to stand up against and it can get to their head. There's nothing wrong with a religious stance that teaches "That way of life is wrong" so long as they don't take it upon themselves to "rid the world of that pagan scum" sort of thing.

But yeah, if you're against kids with powers, there's always that XMen movie burning we're going to later.

[Kaiddin]

IMHO it boils down to everyone wanting to be an 'us'. To be an 'us' there has to be a 'them'.

Historically if you can point to an outsider and say bad, your group becomes more cohessive. A sad comment on the species.

[Protius]

That's one possible outset of religion, yes. You can't have a religion that attributes "this way is right" without a "this way is wrong" or anyone could fall under the category and there'd be no point in categorizing in the first place.

It's hardly based primarily on the fact of membership and group self-image alone, though that is always a possibility. People hold belief sets and can often let incoherent fears lock onto the silliest things, like the belief of possession (or what have you) being linked with Pokemon, etc. To say that the concerned parents, culture groups, etc are just being chummy, exclusive and elitest would be an unfair assessment.

The 'us' / 'them' mindset is a driving one in humans, not particularly the foundation of this one.

[calguard66]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Hugh Casey:
(I had a wonderful conversation with a normally quiet and reserved Jewish gentleman <whom I would normally consider "nice"> in which he told me that he hopes that the Israelis "tie up and shoot those bastards (the Palestinians)like the dogs they are". And he didn't mean the ones throwing rocks... he meant ALL of them!)
</font>

Had a similar conversation with a Jewish friend not too long ago. Without batting an eye I asked:

"Wouldn't it be cheaper to gas them instead?"

She didn't talk to me for a few days.

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[Eric R.]

Well it was nice of Mr. Bender to try to close the generational gap alittle bit. Dad had to see his AC/DC album burned up (Again!)and son wtched as Harry Potter got burned. Now they have an experience to share at the table!

BTW I thought destroying LPs was a crime against historic preservation?

In defense of the whole of Western PA here Mr Bender is a dying breed, theres a few left but please don't think all of us or all pentacostals are like that. I know a few and many are decent people who would be as revolted as anybody at an act like that. Mr Bender seems to forget that it has to be the person whom the objects seemingly inflict that have to burn them (symbolicly destroying the problem which the individual percives in them) which makes the act 1 personal and 2 private and more meaningful. For example many burn letters of ex lovers, I burned a Math book once after graduation (hey it took three trys to finally pass it) etc...

[John Adams]

C.S. Lewis (writer of "The Narnia Chronicles" and a number of sci-fi novels, good friend of J.R.R. Tolkien, and staunch supporter of orthodox Christianity) believed that mythology (and epic stories for that matter) are closer to reality than real life. In other words, fantasy stories give us a glimpse of how much more (and wonderful)there is to life than what we just see every day. Sometimes the church must take a stand against the standards of the culture, but I am sure that the Harry Potter books are just great, harmless fun. In fact, they may even encourage youths who might not otherwise read to read! If anything in our culture today is leading our youth into a literal hell, it is the drug Methamphetamine. So, I agree with you all.

Just the thougts of a short, Methodist Pastor.

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"Kirk to Enterprise. Cestus III has been destroyed." (Oh, like who doesn't scan a planet before they beam down?

[VulcanJoe]

Harry Potter in 2001, Madonna and Teletubbies in the 90's, D&D in the 80's, Disco in the 70's, the Beatles in the 60's, Elvis in the 50's...

The list goes on and on. If it's the current pop culture fad, some right wing media whore is gonna jump on the naysayer fire and brimstone bandwagon.

God forbid they speak up about the real evils of today, like child slavery in India for example, or racial profiling.

But since I'm not running for public office, I'll shut up now

[Homer]

The really scary part of this, there is a church here in my hometown that has the Chronicles of Narnia on their banned books list. They haven't burned anything, but they have a volunteer who waits at the library while they check in new books to add titles, and constantly, like monthly petition the city to have the library remove these books.They are up to about 800 titles, and don't even get me started on movies, tv and games.
At least Bender wasn't burning LUG Trek, or worse, LUG Dune!
This is sick, and should stop. BUT unfortunately I also am a student of Voltaire, I may not agree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it. I can't shut this guy up without someone shutting me up. Free sppech, a double edged sword.

[AslanC]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by VulcanJoe:
Harry Potter in 2001, Madonna and Teletubbies in the 90's, D&D in the 80's, Disco in the 70's, the Beatles in the 60's, Elvis in the 50's...</font>

Christian's in the 1st Century

I guess it is just tradition.



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Aslan Collas
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Star Trek:Strange New Worlds;
http://www.geocities.com/aslan_collas/
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Ferengi Rule Of Acquisition #76: Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies.

[Gaunt_Man]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Originally posted by Homer:
BUT unfortunately I also am a student of Voltaire, I may not agree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it.</font>

I'll drink to that!

(Though I read in the latest issue of Newsweek that that quote was "wrongly attributed to Voltaire". But I have no idea who might have said it, otherwise.)

[DaveTalley]

calguard66 quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Hugh Casey:
(I had a wonderful conversation with a normally quiet and reserved Jewish gentleman in which he told me that he hopes that the Israelis "tie up and shoot those bastards (the Palestinians)like the dogs they are". And he didn't mean the ones throwing rocks... he meant ALL of them!)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Had a similar conversation with a Jewish friend not too long ago. Without batting an eye I asked:

"Wouldn't it be cheaper to gas them instead?"
She didn't talk to me for a few days


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yep, I occasionally listen to NPR on the way home and I keep transposing terms when they talk about the settlements and things like that, I get flashbacks about Lebensraum :-)

of course no matter what happens our govt is gonna most likely support them.....

ok enough politics, back to the trek stuff :-)
DAve

[First of Two]

I work at a public library, as a Children's Librarian, so let this be a notice...

I won't be removing any books.

Anyone who DOES take matters into their own hands will be STEALING. That breaks a commandment.

You'll burn one of my books over my bloody mangled corpse... and a couple dozen of yours.

Now, we've restricted some use.. books with nudity and illustrations of the human reproductive system, and such, to protect ourselves... (but more because they're frequently stolen -- we keep the rarer and more expensive books in the same place) but there still available to anyone who cares to ask for them.

I've read the first Harry Potter book, and I've read the Bible, and believe me, (not to intentionally tread on anyone's beliefs, but ) there's a LOT more nastiness in the LATTER book.

[VulcanJoe]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gaunt_Man:
I'll drink to that!

(Though I read in the latest issue of Newsweek that that quote was "wrongly attributed to Voltaire". But I have no idea who might have said it, otherwise.)</font>

I think it was 19th century American lawyer Daniel Webster.

[Paul]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by First of Two:
I've read the first Harry Potter book, and I've read the Bible, and believe me, (not to intentionally tread on anyone's beliefs, but ) there's a LOT more nastiness in the LATTER book.</font>

Yup. Although I've never read any of the Harry Potter books...I'm quite certain that he didn't turn an innocent person into a pillar of salt simply because she had one last look at the home she was being forced to leave behind forever. We have it on good authority that God did.

And crucifixion is a far more painful way to die than being turned to charcoal by a fireball...

Just goes to show that history (if you include The Bible as part of history - I personally don't) is far more painful and bloody than childeren's literature.

To those who would denounce Harry Potter as "Spawn of Satan" I say - lighten up! It's children's stories, for crying out loud! Would you have children read history books (Roman Wars, Greek Wars, Napoleonic Wars, WW1, WW2, etc...) instead?

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How do I set a Laser Printer to stun?