Projectile Weapons

[ComaBoy]

"Does anybody have any pics or stats for that projectile sniper rifle from DS9 I keep hearing about?"

Is that the rifle Ezri is holding in the DS9 Core book?

[Fortunae]

The Planetary Adventures book also has some projectile weapons from the adventure "Red Giant".

"Arcimi Slugthrower
Resembles a thick, long-barreled machine pistol. It fires a caseless round using a blow-back-powered autofeed system. A clip holds 20 rounds.

Range: 2/5/10/50
Size: .5m
Mass: 7 kg
Damage: 4+2d6 per shot. For autofire, one bullet hits for every 2 points the attacker rolls above the required difficulty."

Hope that's helpful. Peace.

[qerlin]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Robbert Raets:
Enough about guns, already...

</font>

Oh, no! Not guns. (shudder) They're so evil!

Gee, if you're going to read the thread, maybe you shouldn't criticise the subject; it was right there on what it was about.

This was well within the forum and topic: what the weapons do in the game.

[Robbert Raets]

It's just that... Oh, never mind!

[Pakled]

Surprising how little folks on this topic seem to be up to date with Star Trek, regarding firearms...
Don't mean to be patronizing, but I think the TR-116 rifle (that's the one from the DS9 ep, and yes, Ezri Dax wields it) should have popped up a little bit earlier in this thread, or am I the only one who WATCHES STAR TREK???

Oops- Sorry for yelling (caps are rude, my apologies for ye olde outburst...)

Anyway, about the TR-116: If I were still gaming in my old Trek campaign, some folks there would never have let up on this; they would have danced with joy knowing that Starfleet does have slugthrowers! Cheers....Personally, I don't mind it in a standalone episode, I even like the gun from a tech perspective. But I do think that Starfleet -and hence, Star Trek- should stick to ray guns, whatever they call them (phasers, phaser rifles, compression phaser rifles, isomagnetic disintegrators...whoops, the latter IS a slugthrower, or rather a "Trek grenade-launcher" of sorts...Hmmmm, perhaps the raygun tradition is flexible after all; I mean, if 'Insurrection' could get away with it, why not DS9?

Still, despite all the sci-fi Rambo wannabes & gun freaks, I say: no proliferation of slugthtrowers in Star Trek...and that includes ST roleplaying! If ya want bullets and gunsmoke, go watch 'Aliens' & the like a couple of times, dust of your shades and play some Shadowrun or Cyberpunk or the likes.

That's it from me!

[qerlin]

Actually, Pakled, I haven't watched Trek since TNG. Didn't much care for DS9's first season, Voyager blows, and the soon to come series...? Not holding out much hope, but I'll watch a few and see.

So I don't know which rifle you're talking about. Anyone else?

[Robbert Raets]

>sci-fi Rambo wannabes & gun freaks

You know, in VOY:'Macrocosm' Janeway goes Rambo when she finds the ship unpowered and crew-less after returning from insulting the Tak-Tak.

But I still like 'Starship mine' better (which also happens to feature Tim Russ...)

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'Who would have thought... A brave Ferengi!'
Gowron, to Quark, son of Keldar.

[Robbert Raets]

Wait a minute... I'm telling Trekkies what happened on Star Trek?
....
Computer, active the Emergency Medical Hologram...!

[Dan Gurden]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Pakled:

But I do think that Starfleet -and hence, Star Trek- should stick to ray guns, whatever they call them (phasers, phaser rifles, compression phaser rifles, isomagnetic disintegrators...whoops, the latter IS a slugthrower, or rather a "Trek grenade-launcher" of sorts...Hmmmm, perhaps the raygun tradition is flexible after all; I mean, if 'Insurrection' could get away with it, why not DS9?
</font>

Dont mind the sarcasm, its only teasing but you may have watched in favour of listening.

The episode in question specifically states that the TR-116 was designed as an alternate for situations where Phasers (Ray-Guns) wouldn't work for whatever reason.

In fact it is also stated that the trials failed an that only 3 copies of the weapon were produced, but that its replicator pattern was stored.

So Trek still kept its Ray Gun policy and allowed a reasonably interesting episode that simply wouldn't work with other weapons tech...

Just a quick clarification...



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Dan.

"A couple of thoughts from a random mind!"
http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk

[Flamestrike]

Here's a thought:

Phasers are safer to use aboard starships because their destructive power can be minimized so as not to punch gaping holes through the outer hull. This versitility is the key reason that starfleet favors energy weapons.

But what about groups that want to make a scene? In an age where weapons that vaporize their target are common, a slugthrower's results could be considered to be messy and disturbing. Such a weapon would be ideal for terrorists and assasins who want to give a 'message' so to speak.

24th century technology should have made huge milestones in the area of flash suppression and silencing... 'find the terrorist sniper' would make an interesting plot in a Trek game....

[qerlin]

Dunno, I think a gun the size of a cigarette lighter that can vaporize a man is a whole lot scarier than a .45.

Common sci-fi fallacy: your average sidearm/rifle would not create that big a hol in a vesel's hull. Unless you are using an anti-material rifle (14mm+) with some serious spalling action, the hole would be small, manageable, and if the hull is thick, not paper-thin (I would think this the case with Trek ships), you might not even get completely through the bulkhead.

Best weapon on a spacecraft, if you don't have laser/phaser/blasters would be a 12 guage with light loads or Glasier Safety slugs (made by the Israelis, they are designed to not go through a plane hull.)

The real danger in an aircraft firing a weapon is blowing out a window. That's the only real way to seriously decompress a cabin. A greater worry is the round hitting aother person or vital system. I wouldn't think this would be as much a concern on a starship (well, the people...yes.)

[Fortunae]

Originally I opted to not mention this as I am not a big fan of mixing tech toys, but since it occured to me that some cultures a crew might meet in Star Trek could still be using Boom Sticks, and time travel episodes might make this relevent as well as a holodecks...

GURPS High Tech (and to a smaller extent the GURPS Basic Book) has a slew of gunpowder weapons from the earliest to the currently used ones and since GURPS is a Die 6 based system you will find that you need almost no modification to insert them directly into your game as is. On that note, the Ultra Tech 1 & 2 have weapons covering what would be the Cochrane era to beyond Star Trek, also using a d6 so easily adopted as alien weapons and such.

These guns (High Tech and Ultra Tech) are very lethal (GURPS is a lethal system in most applications), and even *more* so if you use the mechanics they include for bullet caliber multipliers, blow through, knock back, and so on. Still, they can be good if your game goes that direction.

If anybody cares, I can probably give you some examples for comparative use, or if anybody wants some of the Ultra Tech examples I suppose that could be another thread entirely.

Peace (Through Superior Firepower?)

[Flamestrike]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by qerlin:
Dunno, I think a gun the size of a cigarette lighter that can vaporize a man is a whole lot scarier than a .45.
</font>

Maybe to you, here in the 20th century, but in the 24th, where death by phaser is quick and reletively painless, getting a chunk of you blown out by a projectile would be a slow, agonizing way to die. Add to this the horror factor of suddenly getting spattered by your friend's blood, and slugthrowers become sinister.

If today, I were at work and someone pulled out a ray gun and made the guy next to me glow and disappear I'd be saying "What the?!". if someone came in, whipped out a .45 and blew my co-worker's head off, leaving the resulting mess all over me, I'd prolly scream my lungs inside out...

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Common sci-fi fallacy: your average sidearm/rifle would not create that big a hol in a vesel's hull. Unless you are using an anti-material rifle (14mm+) with some serious spalling action, the hole would be small, manageable, and if the hull is thick, not paper-thin (I would think this the case with Trek ships), you might not even get completely through the bulkhead.
</font>

True, but when you take explosive armor piercing rounds into account, things change... and even if a bullet makes a LITTLE hole in the hull, said hole might not be able to be patched up immediately. I'm more conserned with how much air I've got to breath than getting sucked out of the spacecraft. If that happens, me or my character is dead anyway.

[Dan Gurden]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Flamestrike:
Maybe to you, here in the 20th century, but in the 24th, where death by phaser is quick and reletively painless, getting a chunk of you blown out by a projectile would be a slow, agonizing way to die. Add to this the horror factor of suddenly getting spattered by your friend's blood, and slugthrowers become sinister.
</font>

You are of course assuming that being vaporised is painless... Lets face it, people have survived gunshot wounds to reveal that it can be, in fact, painful...

We do know that being shot with an energy weapon and surviving is still a painful experience. Take Nog (Siege of AR-558) and Jadzia Dax (Change of Hart), and that the Varon T disruptor is considered an extremeily unpleasant method of killing someone possibly the worst yet...

And this is a universe wher, while the Varon T disruptor is blissfully rare, there seems to be a huge number of 'look-a-like' weapons out there (re-use of the prop)... Which would scare me if pointed in my direction and I didn't know it wasn't a Varon T.

From the on-screen evidence and screams, I assume (and always describe the effect) of being hit by energy weapons fire as a very painful one...

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Dan.

"A couple of thoughts from a random mind!"
http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk

[StyroFoam Man]

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