With all the news about decipher trek and so many former lug employees inclined I wonder which system will be supported more by trekrpg.net. The one from decipher or the old one?
I think someone once said that lug trek will be supported by this site, but this was some months ago. And steve and the others seem to find the new system even better than the old one I can see no reason for not supporting the decipher system here, too.
I hope nobody feels offended by this, but I mean, who of you still plays AD&D? What I mean is that I don´t think that the interest in the lug trek system will stay at the same level as it is now, when decipher begins to sell its books, and I´d like to know how this will be handled.
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God, I liked him better before he died.
I hope nobody feels offended by this, but I mean, who of you still plays AD&D? What I mean is that I don´t think that the interest in the lug trek system will stay at the same level as it is now, when decipher begins to sell its books, and I´d like to know how this will be handled.
Actually, lots of people on the board (myself included), still play AD&D. You do have a point, to an extent. Short term, people might leave the LUG Trek system to "check out" the Decipher system. As someone's tag line says, (one of the regulars, I forget who) "LUGTrek isn't dead, as long as we remember it". Long term, what you describe happens to all games eventually, but that doesn't mean the game dies or is invalid. People will still play LUGTrek, because its fun. Just like some people think AD&D is fun, even AD&D 1.
IMOHO, I personally think there's too much focus on game system A.0 being better than game system B.0. Six months from now, the writers of game system A.0 will come out with game system A.1. This doesn't mean that A.1 is any better than A.0 or even B.0. It just means the systems are different.
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Impossibilities are merely things which we have not yet learned. — Charles W. Chesnutt
I suspect trekrpg.net will resemble whatever its members play. I would look at the Star Wars Holonet boards as a possible direction to go - they have a d20 Rules Section, a d6 Rules Section, and a systemless section for adventure and campaign ideas.
Well actually I do not think I will play the new one out of two reasons.
First: You have to pay around 2 and a half times the money you had to pay before to get the same.
The new books will cost 60 dollars and that will cover only the basic rules. To get a setting description you can at least count another 30 dollars. That makes 90 dollars to get the same info you had e.g. in the DS9 Rulebook. And I think the argument that you can use the first two books for all eras does not count as you can also play a TNG Campaign with just the DS9 book. Or even a Voyager Game ( as I did ).
And second the new system seems to be a bit strange. E.g. there are classes. That is an aspect I do not like at all, because it is too restricting ( although it is stated in another way, but they said it for the new SW RPG too and it was wrong ).
Refering to the upper mentioned price aspect I have to count in that I will have to pay it here in Germany, i.e. I have to add the shipping costs and the chagne costs ( from dollars to DM ) which are counted in at my local store. That means I have to pay at least 200 DM, which is around half of the money I spend for good old LUGTRek and I have alot of books. ( DS9 CB, TOS CB, TNG Player's Guide, TNG The Price of Freedom, TNG The First Line, TNG The Way of Kolinahr, TNG Starfleet Acadamy Boxed Set, DS9 Narrator's Tool Kit ).
And I am not interested to replace a three year old RPG with another one, which seems to be far more expensive. And I put a lot of afford into the LUGTrek RPG so I am not interested in the new game at all. I hope others think the same way, so that LUG Trek will not die out ( that means not that I do not wish lug erm luck to the developers of the new RPG ).
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"I am a great one for rushing in where angels fear to tread." - Cpt. Kirk, Star Trek VI
[This message has been edited by Evan van Eyk (edited 04-29-2001).]
<<Well actually I do not think I will play the new one out of two reasons.
First: You have to pay around 2 and a half times the money you had to pay before to get the same.
The new books will cost 60 dollars and that will cover only the basic rules. To get a setting description you can at least count another 30 dollars. That makes 90 dollars to get the same info you had e.g. in the DS9 Rulebook. And I think the argument that you can use the first two books for all eras does not count as you can also play a TNG Campaign with just the DS9 book. Or even a Voyager Game ( as I did ).
>>
I don't see how one could argue this, as the game isn't even out yet, let alone pricing structures. The pricing scheme could be entirely different. For all we know, we could get the same "bang" for our buck. That's a decision someone else would have to make, but giving us the same quality for the same price makes good business sense.
<<And second the new system seems to be a bit strange. E.g. there are classes. That is an aspect I do not like at all, because it is too restricting ( although it is stated in another way, but they said it for the new SW RPG too and it was wrong ).
>>
Classes. What is an overlay? To *me* it's just a fancy name for a "class". So that point's moot as well.
<<And I am not interested to replace a three year old RPG with another one, which seems to be far more expensive>>
2 points here:
1. RPGs evolve. Fact of life. Accept it and move on.
2. You are still assuming the price structure will put a hole in your pocket. See above arguement. The game (and therefor the pricing structure) still haven't made it to market. So you don't *know* whether or not the game will be more expensive. You're assuming it will be. A good businessperson (hopefully someone from LUG is reading!) will recognize this and at least make an attempt to satisfy you, the customer. That's how they make money anyhow, by keeping customers "happy".
It should be duly noted that I am a fan, like you, not someone "in the know", so it will be interesting to see how LUG/Decipher/WOTC employees respond to this thread.
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Impossibilities are merely things which we have not yet learned. — Charles W. Chesnutt
As a side note to my argument, you might want to go over to the thread in the "Star Trek Chat" section, to the thread marked "Different Decipher TrekRPG Versions ?"
First of all Peryyyy ( hope that are enough y's ) I assumed the numers in the article of the 25th of this month to be correct, saying that both books will costs 60$. I only wanted to say that this is quite a prize increasement and as a consequence there have to be real advantages with the new game to persuade the customers. And I wanted to point out that here in Europe especially Germany the prize even rises because of the different currencies.
Second, I know that RPGs evolve but actually I think introducing classes is a step backwards and not forward and no I do not think Overlays are classes, because you could easily adapt them to your needs with the help of Development Points.
Classes really presribe what you have to take and restricts you in what you can take.
Overlays do not so. Actually I think the Overlay system was quite realistic because it simulated the training you received, however there was the possibility to change details, because not every training is the same.
I think the new RPG will have a hard time at least at the beginning, because there is a RPG which is not very old yet and was I think very good. I see no need not buy the new RPG and I assume there are others who believe the same.
Third, I do not want a German version, because I think thanks to translation much of the books' content suffers and it puts additional costs to the customer and the company. I only wanted to say that the books will be even more expensive here in Germany.
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"I am a great one for rushing in where angels fear to tread." - Cpt. Kirk, Star Trek VI
[This message has been edited by Evan van Eyk (edited 04-29-2001).]
I have to say that I agree with alot of what Evan is saying.
1) I never really considered the overlays as classes (this a point we don't agree on). Then again it would not have bothered me if I had. The overlays are there to simulate the structured learning environment that Star Fleet Academy uses. There is a point system in the TNG core book, use that if you don't like the OLs.
2) Though I won't have the same monetary problems our German friends will...$60, going on projected price from the article posted here a week ago, American will still put a BIG dent in this Canadian's pocket book. Though I don't really think that you would have to buy all the different sources to get the same amount of info. All you need is the Core book, I hope that background info won't change to much so you still are able to use the old books for informational purposes.
3) Yes, games evolve. But when they have an evolution cycle of a few years then problems occur. I have friends who have totally given up on Warhammer 40K because they changed the system so many times in a short period of time. It looks like a money grab (I'm not putting that label on Decipher here) when that happens. I think that is what upsets most gamers.
I answered a similar question on another thread, but I’ll repeat it here because it is an important topic.
We will not be discontinuing support for the Icon System once the new game by Decipher comes out. We will not be removing any content en masse to make room for Decipher content.
Support of Icon (e.g. new submissions) rests totally in the hands of our visitors. If everyone transitions to Decipher Trek and no one submits any more Icon material, then what is online is what shall remain available. If people continue to submit new (and good) content, then we’ll make it available, regardless of the system – Icon or Decipher.
I’ve finished coding a database-driven engine for the site that will allow entries to be tagged by system, so if you’re looking for solely Icon-specific items, you won’t be bothered with Decipher content and vice-versa.
While I don’t share your opinions regarding price or the perception of Overlays vs Classes (move this debate somewhere else, guys), I will point out that a combined investment of $60 provides you with how many hours of enjoyment? That’s slightly more than a PS2 or PC game, plus you can defray the cost amongst your group if it’s really too much. Price is an argument that just doesn’t hold water, IMO.
first of all there is no debate concerning classes or overlays, as I agree with phantom and I think the arguments were said and the thing is finished ( BTW where would one have to move it, because I thought in the general chat one can talk about on what one wants ).
Concerning the prize thing I think it is important to say that the old RPG was not old but quite new, three years or something and I put a lot of money into it.
And as I am not even finished with school
( preparing for my final exams these days ) my wealth is not that large. Making it nearly impossible to buy two books for 60$ not knowing how long this new RPG will last.
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"I am a great one for rushing in where angels fear to tread." - Cpt. Kirk, Star Trek VI
Don if you are installing a database system for search will you also be open to Fasa or even Prime Directive (as it is the process of a new system development) material? I have always felt your decision to stay with just LUG was the correct one but times are changing and it seems that TrekRPG.net can start living up to its name in scope with all Trek RPG systems as while as the outstanding quality now.
The Future of trekrpg.net
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Just had a brain fart trying to remember who it belonged to. 
Making it nearly impossible to buy two books for 60$ not knowing how long this new RPG will last.
