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Let's not forget the Mirror Universe 'crew' in Deep Space 9 building a precise copy of the Defiant for Sisko to use against Chancellor Worf - the data files on the Defiant being somehow copied by Smiley O'Brien from the DS9 computer...Originally Posted by Dan Stack
Now that was a WTF moment for me...
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- It's apparently possible to see a planet imploding in upon itself from an entirely different star system as if it were a moon in the sky.
- It's possible for a Starfleet Engineering base on the same planet not to notice.
- If someone is being insubordinate it's better to waste an escape pod rather than just lock them in the brig.
- It's a big universe but if you just run blindly in a random direction you'll end up in exactly the right cave.
- Some 23rd century engine rooms look like breweries no matter how many computer terminals and crew you have clogging the aisles.
- On the whole, Earth and Vulcan have absolutely no military ships in the vicinity despite being core members of the Federation.
- Scotty runs the engine room entirely by himself in an emergency.
- Sometimes you can fly through a black hole to another time. Other times it'll just crush you.
- it's possible to completely hide a vast, alien ship and it's crew for 26 years.
- Vulcans are totally logical and emotionless when it comes to the annihilation of their race but when it comes to humans or individuals they're arrogant, racist, biggoted, bullying, condescending, angry, resentful, etc etc etc...
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Here's the thing, when you hold it up to the light, the script was cobblers. So why was it still the most enjoyable, rewatchable Trek movie since Voyage Home?
Crow
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because most of the other trek films also have similar (in some cases identical) plot holes too?Because plot holes are often just nitpicking which don't really take away from the actual film. Sometimes I think the difference between a good and a bad film, is if you can overlook it's flaws or not. Nothing's perfect, but sometimes plot-holes pull you out of the film and spoil it for you.. and sometimes you don't care even if you do notice!
I loved the film, and find most of the hole-picking humerous too.... because as a trek fan I've long had the things I love have the piss ripped out of it all time, often by other trek fans, so it's just part of life
Ta Muchly
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As the original perpetrator of this thread, I have to say that my intent was indeed for it to be humorous for those who liked the movie as for those who did not.
Every movie has its plot holes or errors (especially in science-fiction - but then again, sometimes I wonder if life itself does not have its own plot holes as well), and I agree with Tobian that the difference is that for some movies we can overlook them or explain them away, for others we can't, won't, or don't want to. This allows to nitpick as much as we want, and, if it's not overly laced with vitriol, we can all laugh about it.
Just a couple other ones that came to my mind while writing this:
- Starfleet does not mind if its stations or ships carry little creatures of dubious purpose or intelligence, as long as they appear to have a liking to one of the crewmembers.
- 23rd century cops drive futuristic overbikes, but they are unable to overtake a vintage wheeled car before it drops into a canyon.
"The main difference between Trekkies and Manchester United fans is that Trekkies never trashed a train carriage. So why are the Trekkies the social outcasts?"
Terry Pratchett
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Given time and exposure (and access to parts of the STO timeline), I've been able to more of less reconcile my sheer, blinding, raw-seething, vitriol-spewing, hunt-Abrams-down-and-force-feed-him-the-script hatred of the new movie.
But it's taken a conscious effort and quite a bit of grace and charity.
I think the reason most of the long-term fans were less-than-willing to overlook the abyssal plotholes and inconsistencies in this movie was the very well publicized attitude of the director, producers, and staff.
Very early on the fans were told to essentially drop dead- that this was Abram's film and he didn't give a tinker's damn about continuity or the fans. He was making HIS movie and putting his grubby pawprints all over the Trek franchise- and if we didn't like it, we could go watch Lost.
Later, once the backlash started hitting Paramount in their wallets (the only part of their anatomy that still has nerve endings) "outreach" efforts were made to the established fans.
And yet everyone of these attempts to reconcile was either a "stick in the eye" or an insult to the intelligence of the people who knew and loved Star Trek.
Does anyone really believe that Archer- let alone Porthos- was still around 150+ years after the cancellation of Enterprise?
Apparently, Federation starships can't see danger right in front of them while travelling at warp, but they can extend the lifespan of a beagle by 1000%!
No- the real reason this film was so universally loathed is the attitude of the Producers and crew- the same crappy attitude that has all-but-destroyed the Star Wars franchise.
We're not angry because there are plot holes, we're upset because the writers and producers didn't care enough to do any better.
The writers and producers evinced a clear attitude of "We-known-you're-going-to-drop-your-30-bucks-for-ticket,-drink-and-popcorn-one-way-or-the-other-so-bend-over-and-take-it".
They assumed that we'd turn out in droves for even a crappy movies- and therefore didn't trouble themselves to do any better.
We can forgive almost anything for a Star Trek movie- except the utter contempt for the fans that Berman, Braga, and later Abrams demonstrated.
Shatner learned that after his infamous Saturday Night Live skit- but Paramount and Abrams have not.
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- Genocidal Romulan mining commanders will wipe out billions to avenge the loss of their girlfriend/wife/concubine.....
.....but would see her and their entire species slaughtered a dozen times over rather than swallow their pride even once.
- Federation starships are so highly automated and have so many redundant systems that even blasted half to hell, they can be run by one man from the bridge....
....but cannot obey the laws of physics sufficiently to travel less than 100km in a straight line without someone to man the controls.
Supernova shockwaves (travelling at the speed of light) can cover dozens or hundreds of light years faster than a state-of-the-art Vulcan scoutship can travel to Vulcan and back.
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I agree 100% with your whole post, but this line made me laugh as well
Though I yet have to watch this movie a second time to see how I react if I approach it like I do for a bad fanfic.
About Porthos, though, we could argue that Archer just has a thing for beagles. But this would miss the opportunity to add this to our list:
- Beagles live long. Really long. To the point that you have to rig transporters to get rid of them.
(no beagle was harmed during the writing of this item)
"The main difference between Trekkies and Manchester United fans is that Trekkies never trashed a train carriage. So why are the Trekkies the social outcasts?"
Terry Pratchett
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rotfl!!!
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- Future starship commanders are bright enough to hack into the Starfleet Academy mainframe and reprogram classified and complex labwork assignments...
...but not bright enough to check the list-of-participants while they're in there and find out the first name of the hot communications chick.
- Future starship commanders are suave enough to bed the really cute Orion girl (a red-head no less! Mmmm....redheads....). But NOT suave enough to find out her roommate's first name.
...but not bright enough to check the list-of-participants while they're in there and find out the first name of the hot communications chick.
- Starfleet instructors are bright enough to program and administer a simulator mission for three years running...
...but NOT bright enough to figure out precisely how and where their students hacked the system. (Remember, Spock's line was "somehow, you managed to reprogram the simulator and activate a subroutine". Spock was accusing Kirk of hacking the computer without proof.
- In the original timeline, Enterprise was frequently "the only ship in the quadrant". In the new timeline, we find out that this is because Starfleet is in the habit of sending EVERY OTHER SHIP IN THE FLEET to a single system!
- Rather than redeploy a fraction of the starships in the Laurentian System (where they're busy with the All-Fleet-Poker-Game, Chili-Cook-Off, and Barbecue) Starfleet Command will instead send an entire generation of Starfleet Academy cadets on a one-way mission to defend a Federation core world. Every one of the cadets we saw getting their orders in the hangar (with the exception of those assigned to Enterprise or Regula-1) died over Vulcan.
Including the hot red-head @=/&:;;!!!
Dagnabit!!!!
Last edited by selek; 05-18-2010 at 02:37 AM.
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- One tablespoon of "redmatter'/decalithium resin is sufficient to destroy a Class M planet...
..so we're going to send a couple of thousand liters of the stuff on a single small, lightly armed, and totally unescorted scoutship through the heart of an aggressive, expansionist military power with a history of sneak attacks, hijackings, genocidal plots and an unyielding hostility to the Federation and every other major political power in the Alpha Quadrant!
Last edited by selek; 05-17-2010 at 04:27 PM.
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Why the %$&@ not? Makes perfect sense...
About as much as building a multi-kiloton starship on the ground with no visible means of getting it into space made sense...
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I'm still trying to figure out what the @*@&_=_.;?:! that abyssal canyon was doing in the middle of friggin' Iowa!
Somebody suggested it was part of the scar from the weapon that killed Trip's sister, but Iowa's a long way from Florida...
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That was obviously symbolic of the gaping holes in the plot, selek.
Like, young Kirk stealing a 'classic car' that can go like stink... never mind that it's 250+ years old... and would 23rd-century Earth even still have hydrocarbon-based fuels?
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Wow. Is it just me that loves the new movie, then?
Crow
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Plenty of people on this board loved this movie (actually it was strange for me, who was OK with Voyager and Enterprise, to find myself on the other side of the "Arrgh plot holes continuity" vs "Hey, good moment of fun" debate).
It's just this thread attracts those who like to poke fun at it, and maybe there are a tad more of those amongst the people who did not like it.
"The main difference between Trekkies and Manchester United fans is that Trekkies never trashed a train carriage. So why are the Trekkies the social outcasts?"
Terry Pratchett
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