Kobayashi Maru in Treks II and XI [Spoilers]

[Dan Stack]

So my daughter Vicki, who was under a year old when Nemesis came out, has indicated she'd like to see the Star Trek movie. Apparently it's getting word of mouth at the elementary school.

She's seven so I'm a little nervous about the appropriateness of the film for her (though she has survived seeing Revenge of the Sith which also worried me). As a compromise I told her we should probably watch some of the DVDs first. She wanted to see "the first one" first. Having no desire to show her TMP (I saw it around that age now that I think about it) we watched "Enterprise: Broken Bow" together. She really enjoyed it and was totally into Hoshi.

We then moved onto Star Trek II - I figured that if she can handle that most of the new movie should be ok. And watching that I get a little better some of the criticisms of the new movie. To be honest, I still really like the new film, but I'll definitely have to put Khan as the pinnacle of the film franchise.

How come? First of all, I'd forgotten how awesome the acting was. Shatner by Star Trek V thru VII had become, in my opinion, a caricature of himself. But man, in Star Trek II his delivery as an older Kirk was spot on. An absolutely amazing film. And seeing it again for the first time in years made me realize just how integral the Kobayashi Maru scenario was to the whole film. The movie opens with Saavik getting her ass handed to her.

Fast forward to the battle against Reliant. Enterprise gets a similar ass-kicking. But Kirk "cheats" to survive. (To quote later in the movie "I cheated in the face of death and patted myself in the back for my ingenuity"). The rest of the movie is essentially Kirk and Spock playing out a real Kobayashi Maru scenario. The two of them challenge every "rule" there is. Take over the opponent's control systems to lower shields. Trick your enemy over an open channel. Crippled as you are, run into a nebula where both you and your enemy will be blind. March right into a radiation-contaminated room to fix your ship, depositing your soul within one of your best friends for good measure.

The whole thing was genius. And I never fully took in how integral the Kobayashi Maru "no-win" scenario was integral to the film. Something I think the new movie fell short of. I approve of Kirk still cheating on the exam, showing his lack of belief in a no-win scenario. But Star Trek II reinforced that belief throughout the entire film. I think that is where XI fell short. I never quite got the feeling that Kirk was scraping by, pulling every imaginable trick out of his hat to survive against impossible odds. He was more the beneficiary of Spock-Prime - which in a way is ok, as this movie was almost as much a Spock piece as a Kirk piece. But given that I wonder if the Kobayashi Maru scenario was inappropriate in the confines of this film.

That said, I did catch an interesting Star Trek II reference in XI from my rewatching of Khan. Recall that in XI Kirk is munching on an apple when taking the exam for the third time. In II, after he explains how he cheated to Saavik, he takes a bite out of an apple just before beaming back to Enterprise.

[PGoodman13]

I didn't see the scenario's inclusion in XI as a problem; it's intent there was to introduce Kirk and Spock. The film wasn't about Kirk having to pull every rabbit out of every hat he ever owned, as II was. It was about how the friendship started, how things began between Kirk and Spock, how they could arrive at the place where they were in II.

So I don't think it invalidates anything.

I have to agree with you on Shatner's acting in II, by the way; it was an amazing piece of work, and I've never particularly been a big fan of his. Loved Captain Kirk, but Shatner...not so much. I also loved the apple's role in both films; I thought that was a particularly nice touch.

I don't think you could have hurt anything by letting your little girl watch the first one; TMP: Director's Cut was really quite an enjoyable piece of cinema, much more so than the theatrical version. However, letting her watch "Broken Bow" was not a bad choice, either. My son Sam's going to get to cut his Trek teeth on TAS, then some of the live action stuff. Brontë's quite the fan of Enterprise, though, and sings along to the theme song when I forget to fast-forward past the credits. (For the record, I don't skip the main title because I don' t like the song; I skip past because I just want to get on to the story. I do the same thing to TAS, TOS, and would to TNG, DS9, and VOY if I had them on DVD.)

[Dan Stack]

Maybe not so much a problem... I guess where I am is the Kobayashi Maru was done so effectively in Star Trek II. Though to be fair, its inclusion in Star Trek II was as the opening scene. The opening scene in XI was Nero's ship appearing through the lightning storm - a theme that was repeated with Spock prime's appearance as well as Nero's departure.

Hmmm, one of the nice things about TMP is the long pauses give time for discussions. Poor Vicki. I'm not trying to lead her to a life of geekiness. Yet today - "Hey Dad, could we go to the comic book store".

Y'know I know I'm beating a dead horse, but I can't believe how good a job Shatner does in this movie.

[Cut]

Very interesting thread here, Dan.

I am figuring how to introduce my girlfriend into the Star Trek universe after she accompanied me to the new movie...anyway:

That said, I did catch an interesting Star Trek II reference in XI from my rewatching of Khan. Recall that in XI Kirk is munching on an apple when taking the exam for the third time. In II, after he explains how he cheated to Saavik, he takes a bite out of an apple just before beaming back to Enterprise.

This is something I completely missed. NOW the apple makes indeed much more sense. Although I'd like to add, that the appe is missing from the novel-tie-in by Alan Dean Foster! So it must have been a late change in the script...