Future of Trek 2.0 universe (spoilers?)

[Tricky]

So, tptb have given us a new Trek Universe to play in. Things in this universe will not happen exactly as they did in the original universe; the loss of Vulcan and the subtle changes to the Trek-universe that we observed in the film ensure that.

After the movie, I started to wonder how this new universe will unfold; sure some things like V'ger, the whale probe and other events will more than likely happen, and Khan is still a popsicle floating out there. The Kelvans are on their way, as is that space amoeba and Nomad. But where do you think the new universe will change? Will this Kirk become so Anti-Klingon? Without such a strong Vulcan presence in the FED, will the character of this organization change? And what of the Vulcans? Spock says he has picked out a planet to start a colony, but will the supposed 10,000 vulcans left be able to rebuild their species? And will they hold true to their beliefs, after having everything taken away from them?

Just some ideas/topics to discuss. I'll throw some of mine out soon. Who knows, this thread could become a 'plot out the Trek 2.0 rpg' thread!

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Firstly, the Federation will probably pursue more aggressive policy towards time travel; one of their founding members was destroyed by someone who wasn't even born yet. When/if they discover the Guardian of Forever, someone is going to try to go back (or foreward) and save Vulcan. This will be either a Starfleet officer, or one of the Vulcan refugees. Same with the time warp effect.

If they succeed, presto, TrekLite as a distinct timeline has a limited shelf life.

If they don't, then the 24th century might look very different for the Federation. How many technological advances were the result of Vulcan input? The Vulcan politicians and administrators that would rise to prominence in the TNG era are either dead or in significantly different lives. Was Vulcan a moderating presence? Will they now change their attitude? Do they lose their faith in logic?

[BouncyCaitian]

assuming that Spock Prime mentions that little detail....or more wisely ignores the Guardian of Forever, with a footnote to starfleet about a certain system to put a 'Do Not Enter' sign on. Time Travel is such a fragging headache and really has been run into the ground in Star Trek 1.0. Let's just hope the concept is ignored from now on in Star Trek 2.0.

As far as technological advances....if Spock Prime details out the lineral progression of technological advancement over the furture hundred years or so, while some theories might be implimented if a form of hardware for the new idea is not required, it's going to take some time to tool up for some of the more advanced tech. the federation might havea brief edge...but that's going to go away as the surrrounding empires take notice and tool up accordingly.

and given the loss of Vulcan, The federation is going to be very twitchy...which will make the Surrounding empries very nervous.

Interstellar Cold War Redux is probably what will happen

[Tricky]

I agree about the FED becoming 'twitchy': not only did the FED lose a core member, it lost the 'level headed' member, the guy who talked the Humans and Andorians down. Maybe they even become a bit more militaristic; knowing that one shipload of guys (albiet future guys) can take out a planet makes you rethink that whole "peaceful army" thing of Starfleet.

Would the Vulcans abandon logic? I don't know. It did get them through the rough times before. One thing I thought of, not sure why, was Vulcans teaching their philosophy and culture to non-vulcans; sort of ensureing that no matter what happens to their people, they would leave a legacy.

It is sorta logical.

btw, TK; i have found that many fictional timelines seem to survive their 'undoing', even when the end was the distruction of that universe itself. So, the 2.0 trekverse would survive any GoF/slingshot time travel reedits.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

btw, TK; i have found that many fictional timelines seem to survive their 'undoing', even when the end was the distruction of that universe itself. So, the 2.0 trekverse would survive any GoF/slingshot time travel reedits.

Those darn fictional timelines. They're like existential cockroaches.

[Kirk Johnson-Weider]

I tend to agree that the 'new' Federation will be more aggressive and less level-headed now that Vulcan is gone. However, they have Spock with his memory to provide them with tons of new technology. Furthermore, it's not just the Guardian of Forever that Spock Prime knows about. He also knows about the Bajoran Wormhole, that Praxis will go 'pop', the existence of the Borg, and dozens of critical events and facts that give this 'new' Federation an edge. The real question is what he will share and what he won't share, but considering that Vulcan's loss is a crippling blow to the Federation he probably will be generous.

The loss of Vulcan in exchange for Spock Prime was probably an even trade.

This also means that all elements of Trek canon are fair game. The next movie could deal with the Borg or really anything. I also think the next movie will shoot off in a very new direction, there are no longer any canon restrictions on tech, timeline, or anything so it is a blank canvas and anything goes.

[BouncyCaitian]

The Praxis overmining might be mitigated if the Federation can comes to some accomidation with the Klingons, but otherwise pretty much true.

The Doomsday Machine with modern CGI would be teh awesome

[Kirk Johnson-Weider]

I think that would be too similar to XI, a big ship that can destroy planets - they probably need to do something different for the sequel or be accused of being in a rut. I also think they aren't going to touch time travel again. So that raise the question - what next? I don't think they can do an exploration-style mission as there is a reason no Trek movie has really involved exploring the unknown (though many touch upon it), it's hard to put into movie form. So maybe some political/conflict with Klingons or someone. They will probably try upping the ante so it has to be something big - maybe something Genesis Project like. Hard to say.

[C5]

The way I saw the ST XI, I expect pretty much anything in the upcoming movies - including a completely new adventure, with new enemies and challenges, possibly remotely based on a known event, but very loosely. I also expect the technology to diverge hugely from the one of the old universe, and in a way not always accountable by Spock Prime presence.

We already saw bigger ships and phasers that looked much like projectile weapons to me - not to mention transporters that are able to function across a star system (I don't remember if the beaming from Titan was made using the magical warp transporter from Scotty-Spock).

And there also aliens we never saw before - actually, apart from the Romulans, Vulcans and Humans, I don't remember recognizing any alien race (I was unable to link the nurse assisting Kirk's mother, the barfly between Kirk and Uhura and Scotty's "pet" to any alien race I knew of).

So, if the question was about how the movies will evolve - well my take is that we can expect pretty much anything - and my gut feeling is that it won't involve something from the old canon, or, if it does, it will be in a very remote way (like Nero being Romulan - apart from tying with the old canon fact that Spock is an Ambassador in Romulus, he could have been from any other race).

Now if the question is about how we think the Trek 2.0 universe will diverge (say, for the sake of a RPG campaign), I'd say once again that anything can be possible.

Spock Prime might very well decide hold some informations if he consider this Federation not to be ready, in a sort of twist of the Prime Directive (that was not how he acted in the movie, but then again, he had to stop Nero at all costs). If so, the new timeline could be closer to the old one, in technology and development.

On the other hand, this alternate Federation seems somehow more advanced and more militaristic than the old one (my take on it is that it is not actually the past of the old Federation, but the past of a slightly different universe, which would explain why the old timeline would still exist instead of being wiped as is usually the case in Trek).
And the destruction of Vulcan (and of a good part of Starfleet ships and cadets) could motivate Klingons and Romulans (and possibly Cardassians) to try to take advantage of the Federation weakened state.
So the future of this Federation could very well be shaky and violent for some time - something which could drive Spock Prime to impart more of his knowledge.

[BouncyCaitian]

Some on romulus after getting the intell on what happened, thinking likely, "We Have Awakened A Sleeping Giant, And Filled him With A Most Terrible Resolve." And are probably shaking in thier boots at this point.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

The Doomsday Machine with modern CGI would be teh awesome

Dude, we already got that.

Some on romulus after getting the intell on what happened, thinking likely, "We Have Awakened A Sleeping Giant, And Filled him With A Most Terrible Resolve."

Except they didn't do it. Some future-dude (who apparently never actually showed up to warn Romulus) did it, and now Romulus is screwed over too, unless someone somewhere left notes on that whole Red Matter thing.

[Kirk Johnson-Weider]

The Klingons are as hurt as the Federation as Nero destroyed 47 of their ships, which is a lot more than we have reason to believe Starfleet lost. As for the Romulans, the destruction of Vulcan is a wildcard. The whole Romulan-Vulcan thing is a lot like China-Taiwan, a very complicated relationship - now that is gone. Relations could improve with the Federation or they could just deteriorate into open war.

However, I agree with C5, Abrams and crew would rather create their own baddies then use something from Trek canon so I actually think the Romulans and Klingons are just going to be footnotes in the franchise now.

[BouncyCaitian]

Dude, we already got that.



Except they didn't do it. Some future-dude (who apparently never actually showed up to warn Romulus) did it, and now Romulus is screwed over too, unless someone somewhere left notes on that whole Red Matter thing.

this is true. but when you have a organization that has lost a founding member badly and people will be looking around to find what out what happened, particularly when it almost happened to them...they will be looking for a target

[Tricky]

I don't know if Spock Prime would share ANY knowledge with this reality; wouldn't logic dictate that they must find their own path, and not come to rely on one guy's for-knowledge for all their developments.

Also, even if he does, will FED/SF belive him? (oh yeah buddy, we are going to be friends with both the Klingons and the Romulans, and we are going to be invaded by half robots from the other side of the galaxy, and an old space probe will come back to find it's "god", and an alien one will come looking for whales)
I mean, even if they verify that he IS an 'older Spock', given the nature of strangeness in the Trekverse, they wouldn't just accept him at face value. (remember how T'pol didn't believe all of Archer's time travel info, even when there was no other logical explanation)

I think a future film would be best served to create it's own cannon, maybe built on the bones of the old cannon. Throw in a new enemy race show up, but use elements from the old series to connect it.

I just had this idea; it's sorta off the wall, but here goes: Abrams Trek 2: a strange alien menace starts to attack FED outposts and ships. They are very well organized, aggressive and powerful. The ENT. captures one of these raiders, and is surprized that this guy speaks English, despite humans never encountering this race before. He also has some strange ideas about human history, and always refers to the need for 'mere humans' to "know their proper place".

Eventulaly, they make their way to the Raider's HQ, and their leader is revealed to be......

 

KHAN!!!! unfrozen and building a new dynasty on the backs of these willing aliens!!! Antonio Bandaras can play Kahn, or you can go with an actor that is more in line with Khan's name (he was played by a hispanic guy, but the name points to Indian or Sheik herritage)

JJ, call me; we'll do lunch!

[The Tatterdemalion King]

What if Nero was right? What if S31 really did sabotage the effort to rescue Romulus?

I mean, Praxis explodes, the Founders are almost wiped out, Cardassia was bombed, and now Romulus is gone. Depending on your reading of the VOY finale, the Borg might also be decimated. Every other galactopolitical power opposing the Federation has, at one time or another, been gutted. At least one of those was deliberate–how many others were too? Should the Kelvans be worrying now too?