Future of Trek 2.0 universe (spoilers?)

[Dan Stack]

Well looking at the sequel... I'm suspecting they'll follow the Batman Begins/Dark Knight Model. The first film reintroduced the franchise. The second one has the iconic baddie. For Batman that was the Joker.

I'm guessing for the next Trek that means we can expect to see Sybok and maybe V'Ger...

OK, maybe not them. I would bet we are looking at Khan. You really want someone that casual fans can quickly latch onto. Of course adding Khan could play havoc with continuity. There is no way he's a world leader in the 1990s in any sequel film. I wonder if they'd go with an Indian-American actor to play him.

If not Khan I'd bet on either the Borg or some major Klingon conflict. The problem with the Klingons is you'd need a face and I don't think any individual Klingon, aside from Worf, immediately stiands out in public perception.

[Kirk Johnson-Weider]

My instinct is that they won't use Kahn, but that they will use Klingons and a second enemy that is completely new. You don't need a recognizable Klingon, all you need is a Klingon leader who can establish his menace in a quick opening scene - which shouldn't be that hard to do. From canon there are plenty of Klingons to recycle from this time period, though they will probably make a new one. I think a younger General Chang would be a hoot, but like I said it will be someone new. The second enemy will be something Abrams and company will concoct, and as such will probably be stolen from some other sci-fi franchise for better or worse.

[C5]

Concerning Kahn, I don't think that continuity would be of much concern to the writers. The movie had its share of continuity holes (some of which hardly explainable by Nero's interference), but since only hardcore fans can spot them and that most of them don't care, I really don't think it could be an issue.
So Kahn could be the next villain, in a sort of mix between TWOK and Space Seed.
However, I don't quite know how far Kahn is known to non-fans, and given Abrams' approach, I'm not sure he would find Kahn (or the Borg) that useful to attract viewers.

I admit I'm basing this observation on the reception of the movie in France, where a lot of people know Star Trek, but as "the old series with the pointy eared guy" : the movie was successful, because a lot of people have at least heard of Kirk, Spock, or the Enterprise. But "Kaaahn!" or "Resistance is futile" are a lot less known - we are entering geek territory here.

But I really envision the "completely new villain" option for the next movie, with lip-service tying to the known universe.

[Kirk Johnson-Weider]

The more I think about, I think the sequel will be very different. The first movie, Abrams had to make at least a token effort to be within continuity, but the sequel will be Abrams chance to do the sci-fi movie he wants to do. I also suspect that he might approach 2 and 3 as two linked movies so he can have a bigger budget and ensure two more movies to the franchise.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

But "Kaaahn!" or "Resistance is futile" are a lot less known - we are entering geek territory here.

It might be different in France, but both of those quotes are have become pretty rooted in North American pop culture.

[C5]

It might be different in France, but both of those quotes are have become pretty rooted in North American pop culture.

I guess it is, but I wonder how it is indissociable from Trek to the average audience. Because, basically, this movie mainly used the core crew and the Enterprise; everything else was just flavour and winks (for instance, I guess the average viewer would have enjoyed the movie just as much had Nero been Whateverian instead of Romulan).
Since a "plain old Kirk" approach worked very well, I wonder how interesting it is for Abrams to add other Trek references which may be very well known, but still less than the iconic Trek characters.

I agree with Kirk Johnson-Weider that the next two movies could be tied together and have little to no relation to the established Trek canon. Something which can be good or bad (given my opinion of the first movie, I expect the latter, but who knows).

In the meantime, we can always speculate on the future (and past...) of the 2.0 Trekverse. The fact that the next movie could happily throw that out of the window never stopped us

[Dan Gurden]

If they do bring Khan back, then of course someone other than Kirk and Co needs to find the Botany Bay and thaw himo out, because quite frankly if Spock didn't learn from dying the first time then he really is not all that clever.

Kirk. "Spock, look its the old Earth ship SS Botany Bay! Scan for lifesigns..."
Spock. "Yes captain. Oops. I appear to have launched a full spread of photon torpedos and destroyed the ship... Sorry"
Kirk. "Ah well, I know, lets slingshot around the sun and travel to late 21st century earth and go whaling, blubber for dinner! Got a hot date in the 1930's."
Spock. "Actually captain. About that..."

[Tricky]

Just a thought about Khan, Trek continiuity and the "real world": If they did use Khan, should they adjust the continity to fit the real world? The few attempts to show the 90's on trek (on VOY and DS9 episodes to be exact), seemed to gloss over the fact that the Eugenics wars were being fought around that time, or that you were in a post war era. But when it was mentioned on ENT, you got the feeling of a more 'war-like' period, with some character (Reed?) mentioning an ancestor fighting in the EW.

There is a middle ground: in the fantasic "Rise of Khan" books, they have Khan and the supermen being shadowy puppet masters, behind much of the modern worlds stife. They forment terrorist groups that fight the west, they encourage rogue states to band together, and they reap the rewards of pillaging the third world. They steal a secret US gov't space ship, and take to the stars when their shadow empire falls.

Hmm, secret cabals, goverenment conspiracies, and covert action....JJ has NO experience with THAT kinda stuff.

[Kirk Johnson-Weider]

Perhaps, but that type of story doesn't really fit the new franchise, which is completely movie and action based. The next movie has to do three things: 1) move forward a little in time, 2) be as appealing to the masses as XI, and 3) set up a sequel. The first and third are pretty easy, but the second is where the problems present themselves.

As for #2 the main option is you up the stakes, which you can do two ways. First, you up the conceptual stakes - you bring in more ships, more explosions, and destroy more worlds. Second, you up the personal stakes - you make Darth Vader Luke's father, you have Captain Jack Sparrow's soul on the line, you reveal Wolverine's backstory. Sometimes you can do both, but you need to up the stakes a little to keep viewers emotionally invested.

If they just try to make the same movie over again then they will fail, so they have to raise it up a bar. So what do you do? Some obvious options - Kirk in love, maybe with a Dr. Carol Marcus, the Vulcan colony is endangered, the Federation face war or invasion, etc. This is not a cerebral franchise though so whatever it will be will be basic, fundamental stuff.

[Sarge]

Personally, I'd like to see the next movies as stand-alone episodes like TOS on TV. That would have the advantage of not alienating newcomers to the movies, and it would make it easier for us to pick and choose whether or not it will fit into our own personal canon. If it sucks, just ignore it, like "Spock's Brain", or "Profit and Lace".

I'm not saying I expect the sequels to be stand-alones, I don't. But that's what I'd like.

[BouncyCaitian]

The Khan Style Villian (somewhat or completely loonie bad ass villian) has been done to DEATH in trek and we really need something else to break the cycle that led ST 1.0 to it's downfall and increasingly smaller fan base.

Let it lie an try for something else

[Phoenix]

The Eddington-Effect, make the new, true, antagonist somebody from within. I say 'true' because there also need to be an early opponent to act as a movie catalyst.
They really need to stay away from the ST: Insurrection’s spineless betrayer type but go for the David Eddington type. Smart, calm, willing to take a gamble a lot more dangerous than his humble appearance would indicate. Plus the person needs to still have loyalty to the Federation, someone that can be really sympathized with. Sybok is too obvious, plus he comes with his own story limit – basic revenge. Far a name Matt Decker comes to mind, a few years older (let him keep his mind by the way), has some experience as both a commanding officer and as a father (something lacking in Kirk’s past). Let the two become friends, deal with the catalyst threat together then Decker goes off to deal with an issue in his own way that causes problems for the rest of the Federation and in particular the Enterprise and or someone on the crew.

I sure with more though on the subject, we could actually come up with some thing to present to Abrams as a working script (after all how many of us are creative writers, or at least present a competent session as a GM). Well I have company now so I must be going.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

I'm worried that, if they do use Khan, it'll just be due to a dearth of other ideas, rather than an honest attempt to say something with it.

[Tobian]

I think that the new films will more than likely re-visit an old enemy, but not an old Vilain. The new movie, despite it's flaws is original content it is not a re-tread over an old villain backplot, it's moving forward, with the original characters with a twist. I don't think the intention of the new direction is to just dance on the grave of trek and go 'ner ner ner ner ner, we can do it again better than you' and rehash all the old stories like, oh, wait, TNG, DS9 Voyager and Enterprise

I am thinking myself the new film will be about the Klingons, and it may be more akin to the old sneaking kaniving Klingons of the early films and TOS than the Japanese Klingons of TNG. But that's just a guess.

Re-doing something as Iconic as Khan would be a terrible mistake, and also they already did a film about that. I think the direction will take a re-spin at old themes, and if it went to a TV series, then yes, I could imagine them re-doing Khan, but you can bet your life Spock would tell them about Khan!

Oh and as a note, while they will likely conveniently forget it: Kirk mind-melded with future spock. If we go with Canon on that, it means Kirk would have also seen into Spocks head too, so he might already have shared some knowledge!

[C5]

Oh and as a note, while they will likely conveniently forget it: Kirk mind-melded with future spock. If we go with Canon on that, it means Kirk would have also seen into Spocks head too, so he might already have shared some knowledge!

The way it was done in the movie, it looked like Spock only shared the knowledge immediately concerning Nero and the reason for his presence in this era. Given that this old Spock is probably quite skilled as far as mind melds are concerned (adding to the fact that he's mind melding with a mind close to one he knew very well), I find not too far fetched to assume that Spock imparted only what he wanted to and nothing more.
Otherwise, given what we have seen of this Kirk, I would not be too surprised to have him jump to every important planet discovered by the 24th century in order to smugly announce to Starfleet (while munching on an apple) that he has yet discovered another very precious artifact or civilization.