Changing from 2d6 to 2d10?

[AslanC]

You guys know this system pretty well.

What changes would have to be made to the game if one were to change the core mechanic from 2d6 to 2d10?

It's something I am playing with as I have grown very very tired of D&D/C&C/Etc. and am thinking of changing my campaign over to CODA divorced from LotR or Star Trek (Obviously).

Thanks in advance.

[PGoodman13]

Ah, so I'm betting that this is what that cryptic message was about....

First, let me recommend you go here and download GandalfofBorg's most excellent CODA Basic System Reference, which really takes a lot of the work out of using the CODA system for something other than Trek or LOTR.

With that out of the way...the only thing I can think of offhand that you'd need to deal with would be target numbers, since 2d10 obviously gives you a wider probability range than does 2d6. Other than that, once you decide on the skill set to include in the game, you should be golden. You don't really need to adjust the skill levels themselves since that would be accounted for with the new TN chart you'd need to come up with.

Note that CODA's pretty cinematic in taste, and the PCs are fairly competent for the most part, so you'll want to look at that and adjust the target numbers accordingly if you want a little less cinematic flair.

[AslanC]

Thanks PG

Yeah that's what that cryptic Facebook message was all about :P

I have the BSR, but I am not sure how to do the math...

Let's look at it.

2d6 gives us an average of 7

2d10 gives us an average of 11

That's the beauty of rolling two dice, they tend to give average results a lot.

So that said;

Regular TNs
Routine 5
Standard 10
Challenging 15
Difficult 20
Virtually Impossible 25

If the difference on average is 4 points it would become;

Routine 9
Standard 14
Challenging 19
Difficult 24
Virtually Impossible 29

Those seem awkward to me, so perhaps a straight upping by 5?

Routine 10
Standard 15
Challenging 20
Difficult 25
Virtually Impossible 30

What do you think?

[Aldaron]

I'd go with the straight 5 increase. Although it might be mathematically a bit off (as you said, 4 is actually more accurate), it will drop the cinematic flavour a tad, making it a little more likely that PCs will fail their rolls.

If I have a complaint about CODA, it's that there's a tad too little tension when it comes to ordinary skill checks...in my experience, PCs hardly ever fail them.

[Tomcat]

If I have a complaint about CODA, it's that there's a tad too little tension when it comes to ordinary skill checks...in my experience, PCs hardly ever fail them.

But in life, how often do we fail at the mundane, or ordinary tasks - I mean, if I am not in a hurry, I could climb a rope with very little risk of falling... well, hopefully! An Elf with no external stresses should be able to walk across the thinnest of ropes over a raging river.

It is only when danger, injury, or urgency, are added that we may become less competent. That is the duty of the GM to add the situational and environmental modifiers that may cause us to easily fail at the mundane.

Examples include:
- Is the character wounded or scared? I have made PC's roll Fear tests for ALL things that may have never faced before, even if the enemy or creature may not be exuding terror, or trying to intimidate. I mean, come on, if you have never faced down a band of 30 orcs, it could be stressful and at least may cause a little fear.
- Is there a challenge with lighting, weather-conditions, or other environmental challenge?
- Is the PC under stress to hurry, are a horde of orcs racing up on the company, or an even stronger fell-creature?

Adjusting TN's up, or adding penalty mods for these kind of things reflects the reality of the situation really well in CODA.

YMMV, of course!

[AslanC]

I remember that Star Trek characters (due to requiring multiple advancements out of the gate) were far better at skills than LotR characters.

But I think TC has it right, modifiers can really help make things tougher.

Also I don't make them role unless it is a "high stress" or tense situation like the enemy on their heels, a house on fire, etc...

The more I read, the happier I am with the 2d6 though, as I don't think 2d10 really brings anything special to it all.

[PGoodman13]

The straight 5 increase seems okay to me. I'll comment on the rest later; I really shouldn't be online at the moment (I should be mowing my lawn).

[Aldaron]

But in life, how often do we fail at the mundane, or ordinary tasks - I mean, if I am not in a hurry, I could climb a rope with very little risk of falling... well, hopefully! An Elf with no external stresses should be able to walk across the thinnest of ropes over a raging river.

It is only when danger, injury, or urgency, are added that we may become less competent. That is the duty of the GM to add the situational and environmental modifiers that may cause us to easily fail at the mundane.

Examples include:
- Is the character wounded or scared? I have made PC's roll Fear tests for ALL things that may have never faced before, even if the enemy or creature may not be exuding terror, or trying to intimidate. I mean, come on, if you have never faced down a band of 30 orcs, it could be stressful and at least may cause a little fear.
- Is there a challenge with lighting, weather-conditions, or other environmental challenge?
- Is the PC under stress to hurry, are a horde of orcs racing up on the company, or an even stronger fell-creature?

Adjusting TN's up, or adding penalty mods for these kind of things reflects the reality of the situation really well in CODA.

YMMV, of course!

In my defence, I was thinking more of Star Trek than Lord of the Rings, and it was only a little complaint.

[AslanC]

The other thing to consider is this, if you switch to a 2d10 or even a 2d8 mechanic, shouldn't stats scale appropriately?

That seems to me as a major adjustment to the game.

What do you all think?

[PGoodman13]

I don't know that it would really be necessary, Aslan, if you're trying to tone down the cinematic flair a little bit. If you were trying to maintain that, then yes, you'd need to scale the stats up a little bit (and you'll want to do something kind of drastic with Reactions anyway, now that I think about it, because they're pretty weak).

I know I'm not being much help here, but I've really never given the matter a lot of thought; I kinda like the 2d6 mechanic as it is.

[AslanC]

What's wrong with the Reactions?

[Fugazi Grrl]

If I have a complaint about CODA, it's that there's a tad too little tension when it comes to ordinary skill checks...in my experience, PCs hardly ever fail them.

I play-tested my CODA books last night, using Sisko, Kira & Worf (since their game stats were in the back of the NG) and it was actually quite challenging.

They all three failed one crucial skill roll, and Kira kept failing her ranged weapon rolls. But, they got through the little mini-adventure I sent them on (using an old D&D module) about the way you'd expect on an episode of DS9.

The funny part - I used the same old D&D module, and the characters of Worf, Data, Troi, & Riker (stats in FASA's TNG Season 1 book) when I was showing a new player how to play FASA a couple of months ago. Since I used Worf twice I found it irresistable to RP him as if he were returning to the same site, 9 years later !

[tonyg]

The other thing to consider is this, if you switch to a 2d10 or even a 2d8 mechanic, shouldn't stats scale appropriately?

That seems to me as a major adjustment to the game.

What do you all think?

No, becuase you rarely use the actual stat, but the die modifier instead. If you wanted to, you could increase the stats in order to get higher modifiers (in order to offset the increase in the range). You might want to double the species adjustments as well, so that they aren't minimized by the stat range.

I'd recommended increase the Difficulty numbers rather than keeping the +5 simply because the range is greater. 2-20 vs 2-12. Otherwise character will be making difficult rolls much more often. Of course 2d10 also means fewer critical (double 10s) in comparison to 2d6.

You might also want to increase the benfits of courage points to reflect the wider range.