Star Trek 11

[JALU3]

But in the end, it's your universe. I can't remember who, but someone on this board made the typical FED citizen basicly a fat, lazy couch potato who didn't work and waited for new treasures to be brought to him by SF!

People run the gambit, from the best in human nature, to the worse. Mankind, in Star Trek, didn't follow the sloth that is part of human nature (and probably still persist in some form) ... however that doesn't mean that in one of those alternative realities in Parallels that there wasn't a ship that represents the universe where mankind did.

Capitalism is not the root of all evil, and neither is socialism (both being economic systems). If man were angels socialism may work, that's always been my opinion. But is mankind made of angels?

[K.G. Carlson]

One of my favorite Next Gen movie moments is when Lily rains on Picard's "evolved sensibilities" parade but good. Take that you stuffy aristocrat!

[ZeroArmour]

One thing I think most people don't get is that you can have an economic system without it being driven by the desire for profit (that is to say the desire for profit above all else, such as the common good). The great failing of the current "Free Market" system is that is doesn't work. We are told that we will get better stuff because we will be willing to pay more for it, so they will make it for us. Does anyone know of that ever happening?

We (as a species) have made it clear that we will take what we can get, with little complaint. As Ford said "You can have it in any colour, as long as it's black", and that is still how the system works today. Our cars are getting the same fuel consumption today that they got half a century ago, why? Because we would rather whine about the price of gas than demand cars with better consumption.

What we need is someone to step in every once & a while to say "No, the customer would like something else." Make it law that the next generation of cars must be "better", not just have more stuff. But I don't think that weill ever happen, everyone keeps telling me that sounds like communism!

[JALU3]

Yes, but who decides who that person is, and market forces should be able to dictate as to whether a product with be successful. Granted people will take what they can get, but when offered an multiple types of products, depending on their preferences/wants. needs, and means, they will purchase the product which falls within those aforementioned criteria. Furthermore, besides governmental regulation, there is no limit as to what someone willing to take a risk, and having the means to provide for the , of capital, time, and effort, can offer as a product to compete in any market. Therefore, if someone wanted to offer a more fuel efficient vehicle to compete with one that is less fuel efficient, no one is stopping them. If there is sufficient consumers interested in purchasing said product, then the producer will be able to support themselves, and produce more.

All this being said, this is getting dangerously into the political realm, therefore, we probably should stop here, if we shall continue about individuals preferences in economic and political systems, unless we keep it in context of discussing Star Trek.

[Rotwang]

Even though I originated the post, I have to agree with Jalu. The original intent of the post was to ask what differences from canonical trek do different GM's employ or different players would like to see. I do love a good debate regarding world view issues, and I appreciate the intelligent and respectful manner that participants have either agreed or disagreed. I get the feeling that being part of this group will be fun and fulfilling even if sometimes contentious.

To get back to the original point, one issue I have not decided how to resolve is the issue of Colonel West in Star Trek VI. What is he a colonel of? Colonel is an army class of rank, and Starfleet seems to use naval ranks exclusively. If there is a canonical answer to this, I do not know of it, but I have considered three possible responses. First is it didn't actually happen. West was never called a colonel, his first name was Colonel, it was only a nickname, or he never existed. The second option is there is an organization within Federation that does have a purely militaristic role that use army designations. The third option is that Starfleet personnel that are assigned to planetary bases and planetary defense roles are given army designations.

The first option requires no extrapolation, and I can extrapolate on the other two views, but I would like to give other participants and opportunity to give their opinions before I continue.

Or, if you would like to discuss other issues related to how you use your own perceptions to run your games, that would also be on topic.

[JALU3]

It is possible that he was part of a member planet defense force, and was doing his "two weeks" and was "federalized". It had to have happened, because it was on screen, now unless the writers placed in notes explaining why the title Colonel was used, it can be expanded on in fandom. That being said, Colonel need not be "purely military", see Kentucky Colonel, and Nebraska Admiral for example.

[K.G. Carlson]

Weren't there Star Fleet Ground Forces on DS9 during the Dominion War? And there are the 22nd century MACOs...

I'd always thought that "Colonel" West was a nod to FASA's Starfleet Marines. Come to think of it, I thought I remember reading that the ground assault "khaki shirts" in STV for the Nimbus III rescue mission were referred to as marines in the production notes or some such.

[Tricky]

Wow, this thread is a lightning rod for Trek controversy!
First, Trek-onomics, now the question of the FED Marines!

[Owen E Oulton]

IMSHO, Colonel West was a marine, as was the guy at Cestus III. He was merely disguised as a Starfleet captain in the scene at the President's office. However, since West was the actual assassin, the Marine were folded into Starfleet after the Khitomer conference, perhaps as part of the Khitomer Treaty.

If you don't believe a branch of the service could be disbanded for one incident, consider that in Somalia, two NCO's beat a prisoner to death, a mere petty thief, and as a result, the Canadian Airborne Regiment was disbanded. It was finally replaced 10 years later by the Canadian Special Operations Regiment, which wears a tan beret in place of the old Airborne maroon one... True story.

[Rotwang]

Tricky, I don't mean to be so controversial. It must be my natural charm, but personally, I like having my mind stretched. It really spurs my creative juices. Besides, I don't know a lot of the canonical information which is why I would prefer to go off on my own tangent in my campaign. I don't want that guy that happens to know Kirk's safe combination constantly vetoing me every time I step out of line.

[WarriorKnight]

Truthfully in my FASA Trek games I never used Star Fleet Marines.I had a branch of Star Fleet Security that used "Army/Marine" ranks.Later when Star Trek:Enterprise added MACOS I ruled in my games that that section of Star Fleet Security was called MACOS. Never saw the need for "Marines" in Star Trek,always just seemed like security forces to me.
FASA had a chart in Merchant Princes for Star Fleet pay scales.Besides Kirk never said that they didn't get paid or had a use for money,just that gold/diamonds & jewels were worth much to them since they could replicate them with their equipment.Maybe latinum can't be replicated & it makes it worth something of value now.The only refrence I can remember of anyone using the word Credits in Star Trek was in the Trouble With Tribbles when the Bartender & Cyrano Jones were coming up with a price for the Tribbles.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Maybe latinum can't be replicated & it makes it worth something of value now.

That, specifically, is stated–at least once in 'Who Mourns For Morn?'–as the reason the Ferengi use it.

The only refrence I can remember of anyone using the word Credits in Star Trek was in the Trouble With Tribbles when the Bartender & Cyrano Jones were coming up with a price for the Tribbles.

There's a list of mentions here.

[ZeroArmour]

IMSHO, Colonel West was a marine... He was merely disguised as a Starfleet captain in the scene at the President's office.

Just a correction, he was wearing an Admirals rank insignia, though that could be just because they were cheaping out on the uniforms in STVI. It's been suggested that "Colonel" was just a title, not his actual rank.

[Rotwang]

Actually, on both of these issues, I can put off my decision. I intend most of my adventures around typical Star Trek ship-based missions where neither colonels and credits aren't needed, but I hope to expand my game to the point that these questions will need answers.

For the colonel issue, I am leaning to the idea that the title of colonel is given to whatever officer is in charge of Federation strategic operations as a traditional honorific like the commanding officer is called a captain regardless of actual rank. I am willing to accede to player demand on the issue, and I have a back up plan and a system of rank that is supposed to correspond to the ranks used in the TOS era.

For the credit issue, I don't want shopping and bookkeeping as a central theme in my Starfleet campaigns. I would rather most spending to be a roleplaying issue. I don't want characters wondering if they have enough for drink at the bar or the dancing Orion girl lamp at the souvenir shop. Sooner or later, a player will want something that isn't Starfleet issue that would not be described as easy to obtain. Perhaps, one of the security officers goes into a Starfleet surplus store looking for a Klingon bat'leth or a medical officer might have penchant for Romulan ale. In some cases a trade or a service might fit the bill. I can imagine a Romulan centurion with a taste for Kentucky bourbon, but sometimes, people want an exchange that is more portable, and I want something in play before that comes up. I would prefer to stay away from saying a Starfleet captain makes X credits/month rather I would prefer a system that says he has X purchasing power to obtain anything beyond basic needs and wants. I would also like to include DS9 and Babylon 5 style settings where players might be engaged in commerce, whether legal or illegal, and I will need some system of exchange without keeping track of every credit or commodity that could possibly exist.

Now, to get away from contreversial subjects (I hope), I've been wondering what to do with the Klingons. I like the Mongolian looking guys from TOS, but I know the newer ones are potentially more popular with any of my players; so, I decided that both are sub-species of the same race, and both co-exist in the same empire, but they don't like each other much. How does other GM's deal with this issue?

[Tomcat]

Did you watch Enterprise? They tried to do a work around on this issue of the changes in the Klingon features from TOS to TMP and beyond - something to do with genetics.

Not 100% on the how or why, but it might be on Ex Astris.