Lying Vulcans?

[Cdre Bob Wesley]

As a player, how far do you think you can push it?

As a narrator, what would be your policy on this?

[C5]

On the whole, I expect Vulcans to be able to lie when needed, otherwise Vulcan spies would have a very hard time ("Are you a spy ? Answer by yes or no").

I would see that as a code of conduct: some Vulcans may consider that lying, under some circumstances, is the logical thing to do, other may decide that it should not be done not matter the stakes.
Of course, not lying does not mean being 100% honest: I stumbled by chance on an Enterprise episode last week where T'Pol helps a kid playing hide and seek by answering to the question "have you seen Sarah ?" that she does not know of any kid named like that (which she states later on is completely correct).

That is personally the kind of lie I would allow myself as a Vulcan player.
As a narrator, like I said above, I could devise some logical argument according to which some Vulcans are allowed to lie (to me, Vulcan logic always felt like Klingon honour: a convenient way to justify about any behaviour in its name ).

Hope that helps a little.

[selek]

I have to agree with C5, here.

Spock lied (or exaggerated) several times during the Original Series and movies.

He even lied- by omission- in the Abrams reboot.

The deciding factors for me would be whether it was logical and justifiable to do so.

The old Anne Frank paradox comes to mind (Could a Christian under commandment of God not to lie deliberately decieve Nazi stormtroopers looking for the Jews hiding in her attic?)

If the Vulcan in question is lying for his or her own immediate profit or telling falsehoods unnecessarily, then that's over the line.

If the lie serves to protect the innocent, or save lives, then it would not.

Motive is everything. Lies which are crafted for petty, venal, or selfish ends should be dealt with harshly.

Lies which serve the greater good should be dealt with less harshly.


Finally, I'd handle the problem with a sublt in-game solution. A liar (of any stripe) or a Vulcan acting "against the grain" or contrary to tradition will swiftly become a pariah among his own kind.

He (or she) should suffer penalties to Renown and to Social tests. The notes under the Klingon Species ability Honor will provide some guidelines, I think.

[Cdre Bob Wesley]

The old Anne Frank paradox comes to mind (Could a Christian under commandment of God not to lie deliberately decieve Nazi stormtroopers looking for the Jews hiding in her attic?)

See the biography of Corrie Ten Boom. Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.

If the Vulcan in question is lying for his or her own immediate profit or telling falsehoods unnecessarily, then that's over the line. If the lie serves to protect the innocent, or save lives, then it would not.

Agreed. Well put.

Finally, I'd handle the problem with a sublt in-game solution. A liar (of any stripe) or a Vulcan acting "against the grain" or contrary to tradition will swiftly become a pariah among his own kind.

He (or she) should suffer penalties to Renown and to Social tests. The notes under the Klingon Species ability Honor will provide some guidelines, I think.

Nice!

Thanks to Selek and C5 for their input!

[BouncyCaitian]

See The Minbari from Babylon 5 for a variation on this trope. They may be emotional, but do not lie, expect to protect someone elses honour. Which leads to interesting implications...