Courage on Initiative?

[Doug Taylor]

Initiative seems to be a different kind of skill test. I know you don't usually record it for experience points later (if you track XP that way) and it's the Captain's Tactics roll, not the ship's (so you don't add in the ship's Tactical maneuver bonus). How about Courage? Can the Captain of a starship spend Courage to boost his Initiative?

[K.G. Carlson]

I allow it. Since the M-5 was a failure , its the reactions of the crew that determine how fast the ship responds so the Courage of its Captain. Any roll that is based off the Crew's skills, in my opinion, should be open to the influence of Courage.

[Doug Taylor]

I allow it. Since the M-5 was a failure , its the reactions of the crew that determine how fast the ship responds so the Courage of its Captain. Any roll that is based off the Crew's skills, in my opinion, should be open to the influence of Courage.

Makes sense. Of course if the PC Captain can do it, then so can the Commander of the opposing vessel!

[Fugazi Grrl]

Great question ! And I agree with KG Carlson on the use of courage.

It hasn't come up in our game yet, but if it does I'll have a good answer for any questions about it !

[K.G. Carlson]

I allow it. Since the M-5 was a failure , its the reactions of the crew that determine how fast the ship responds so the Courage of its Captain. Any roll that is based off the Crew's skills, in my opinion, should be open to the influence of Courage.

Although this is certainly true, I am VERY cautious about NPC use of Courage. I tend to set up fairly challenging encounters, and the Crew's reliance on Courage to compensate for bad dice rolls is, to me, the game operating as designed.

Of course, I am very careful regardless of system to avoid an "arms race" with the player characters; I still shudder at many bad experiences from my early gamer days with GMs who felt as though they had to "win" the game. Every time I unfold my screen, I renew my promise not to be that GM.

[Fugazi Grrl]

Every time I unfold my screen, I renew my promise not to be that GM.

You sound like our Narrator, and my good friend, Tamanny. She always says "This is not 1981, you are not a 1st level Halfling, and I'm not here to kill you."

I think she even wrote that in our House Rules.

And I'm with you on the use of courage by NPCs - especially cannon fodder baddies, and "red shirts". Courage was designed to make the PCs perform more heroically; James T. Kirk doesn't have to worry about bad dice rolls, and that's what the courage points are there for.

[Doug Taylor]

Good call on the use of Courage, both of you!

I like how Courage works in this game. If the players use it for something heroic, they are likely to get it back again immediately. If they use some just to outperform their opponent, they're not likely to get it back again for some time (likely next session).

[Fugazi Grrl]

Doug, Courage in CODA functions very similarly to Courage in ICON. You just don't get as big a bonus. But, since ICON's difficulties are usually lower it balances out.

Lots of games use the Courage system under other names.

Cinematic UniSystem - Drama Points
Cubicle 7's Doctor Who - Story Points
WEG's Star Wars - Character points (or Force points for a big boost)

I honestly prefer games that have some kind of system like this so that the PCs get and edge. They are the "stars" of the "show" after all !

[K.G. Carlson]

Doug, Courage in CODA functions very similarly to Courage in ICON. You just don't get as big a bonus. But, since ICON's difficulties are usually lower it balances out.

Lots of games use the Courage system under other names.

Cinematic UniSystem - Drama Points
Cubicle 7's Doctor Who - Story Points
WEG's Star Wars - Character points (or Force points for a big boost)

I honestly prefer games that have some kind of system like this so that the PCs get and edge. They are the "stars" of the "show" after all !

Also:
WOTC's Star Wars d20 (all systems) have Force points
Mutants & Masterminds - Hero Points
Ubiquity (Hollow Earth Expedition) - Style Points
Pathfinder - Hero Points
3.5 D&D - Actions Points as an optional add-on from Unearthed Arcana
4e D&D - Action Points (not as powerful as their 3.5 counterpoints

I think most modern game designers have come to see the wisdom of allowing the players to be the hero, even when the dice on occasion betray them

[Doug Taylor]

I totally agree with the use of Courage in these ways. I've played at least one of those other games mentioned (WEG's d6 Star Wars) and really like how this way of boosting potentially bad rolls.

This thread makes me consider proposing the use of such a mechanic for the main game I play - the superhero RPG Villains and Vigilantes - which the designers are currently creating a new version of. Being a game system that emphasizes the heroic, it would probably be a really good fit for that game, too.

[Doug Taylor]

Just thought of a couple more systems that I've played that used them. The old Top Secret (from TSR) had Fate and Fortune Points, and the James Bond 007 game had Hero Points as well.

[K.G. Carlson]

I totally agree with the use of Courage in these ways. I've played at least one of those other games mentioned (WEG's d6 Star Wars) and really like how this way of boosting potentially bad rolls.

This thread makes me consider proposing the use of such a mechanic for the main game I play - the superhero RPG Villains and Vigilantes - which the designers are currently creating a new version of. Being a game system that emphasizes the heroic, it would probably be a really good fit for that game, too.

I've heard good things about V&V. Budget concerns linked to the fact that Mutants & Masterminds 2e is my go-to system for supers rpg-ing means I probably won't be checking out the new V&V anytime soon. But I wouldn't be surprised if the new rules already incorporate some type of hero point system.

[Doug Taylor]

I've heard good things about V&V. Budget concerns linked to the fact that Mutants & Masterminds 2e is my go-to system for supers rpg-ing means I probably won't be checking out the new V&V anytime soon. But I wouldn't be surprised if the new rules already incorporate some type of hero point system.

V&V is a really great game. Very fun, old school, and a great system for handling multiple genres (I know of people who have used the system for a Star Trek campaign, for instance).

I've quoted a few of you (on the comments here about Courage) over on the Monkey House Games Forum, the home site for the two creators of the game. I brought up this issue, as the designers are starting to let people know some of the changes for the new 3.0, and I wondered what they would think about the concept, as V&V has never had such a concept or mechanic.

Many players chimed in about how they really enjoy them and find them necessary in a game. Jeff Dee, one of the two creators (you may recognize his name as one of the original TSR artists) finally posted today and said that he disagrees. He sees two schools of thought with regard to RPGs, and he is from the "Simulationist" school of thought, as opposed to the "Storyteller" group.
He feels that the game system rules should be what defines the physics of the game universe. He's not opposed to mechanisms for "pushing" (using stamina or adreneline), but is very much agains the whole "Hero Point" concept.

There are some differences with V&V that may mean that it doesn't need them, also. Unlike CODA, no matter how beat up your character is (even 95% of Hit Points gone), you don't have any negative modifiers to any of your actions. So CODA is more realistic in this regard, but it's one of the reasons V&V may not even need such a concept (as Courage).

[Fugazi Grrl]

Doctor Who (by FASA) also had a Luck pool, that functioned similarly. And so did FGU's Daredevils. A pulp-action game set in the 1930s that we still play. It's a game, nearly 30 years old, and it still has some very functional and enjoyable mechanics.

I like the way Courage works in either Eden's UniSystem, or in CODA best. CODA provides the biggest boosts to dice rolls. But, SW Character Points as saved a life more than once since combat in WEG's D6 system can be pretty deadly sometimes.

[splatomat]

I try not to restrict how players use Courage points system because it's a resource that they have to manage responsibly. It allows them to compensate for the occasional hideous roll, but the limited nature of the points creates some dramatic tension when they're spent. I like that kind of tension a lot.

I have a player who has the Intolerance (Ferengi) flaw. He was treating poor refugees in a plague-stricken area and was making Medicine checks. He had to make three checks overall, and spent 2 Courage to ensure success on the second and third check. I was about to give him both points back (for doing something heroic and selfless), when he asked "are any of the refugees Ferengi?" in a very Vulcan-esque and disdainful tone.

Then he only got 1 back. LOL

I also try to refresh Courage points when the players do something really clever or funny, or use a skill in a novel manner that makes people laugh or enjoy the game more.

It's a nifty mechanism that adds some flexibility to the game.