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Thread: Getting past the Borg

  1. #16
    Same thing, really.
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  2. #17
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    Good point on the comparison to a zombie, Tricky, and the way CODA has made the Borg I don't think one actually has to worry about the Adaptation feature (with HTH attacks).

    Other than Armed Combat (which I also don't think they would adapt to like they do energy weapons), characters doing HTH do very little damage, even if they're really strong. At most we're talking 1d6+3, and that's like 7 points (on average). The Borg don't take any penalties or hinderances for being pounded on, cut, or smashed, and even the non-combat basic drones have 66 points that have to be chewed through . So - on average - even your ultra-strong Vulcan or Klingon is going to have to do 10 hits to drop even the average drone! Trust me, by that time it's likely that said character will have already been assmilated!

    I checked the Aliens sourcebook this morning, and - though it doesn't spell out energey weapons per se - it does use words like "shot" and certainly seems to imply that the Adaptation ability only works on Ranged energy attacks.
    Doug Taylor
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  3. #18
    I don't recall every seeing them deflect kinetic attacks with energy shielding. I suspect that's a power cost thing; energy weapons could blow them up, so it's worth the power drain, but a bullet wound will just damage replaceable flesh.
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  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King View Post
    I don't recall every seeing them deflect kinetic attacks with energy shielding. I suspect that's a power cost thing; energy weapons could blow them up, so it's worth the power drain, but a bullet wound will just damage replaceable flesh.
    Interesting theory... So the Borg are effectively discounting these lower damaging attacks as irrelevant, up to and including the loss of single/small numbers of Drones, while (as you say) an energy weapon is of a significant potential threat to warrant adaptation.

    I like that, it makes sense...
    DanG/Darth Gurden
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  5. #20
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    I like it too, and it makes sense the way it works in the CODA system, where they can suffer an incredible amount of punishment but still have no penalties from it.
    Doug Taylor
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    Currently running The One Ring RPG. I also occasionally run Villains & Vigilantes (our campaign is in year 25) and WEG d6 Star Wars (both games are mostly on hiatus) and an annual game based on The X-Files (using Conspiracy X).

  6. #21
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    it's like insects. The life of a individual Borg doesn't matter. it is the survival of the hive that is paramount. Plus, any cuture that relies on physical weapons is probably considered too easy to assimilate to be a real threat.

    And, as far as the adaptive energy shielding goes, there are no doubt limits, but we don't know what they are. The Borg looked powerful (at least originally) in part becuase they are more technologically advanced than the Federation.

  7. #22
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    hmm...I need to get back to Perfect World and Cryptic about my Weapons adaptation proposal. The 2410 cutting edge weapons systems are just starting to come out and the are anti borg specfic...
    A brave little theory, and actually quite coherent for a system of five or seven dimensions -- if only we lived in one.

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  8. #23
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    Interesting point. As a species here on Earth we've gone along the route of handheld weapons to ranged armament. Trek has taken that along the SF route of energy beams, and so the Borg have adaptive shielding set up for red/blue/whatever energy bolts...

    ...which makes me wonder about fuel-air explosives, tiger pit traps, and other such 'unfair' tactics. Even a trap-door or a land mine would make a difference. Sure, the Borg adapt, but can they defy gravity? A 600 metre drop can ruin anyone's day!

  9. #24
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    Back when i roleplayed a member of the x-men, there was a bit of conventional wisdom about fighting THEIR robotic, always adapting menace, the Sentinels: Kill them quick so they can't report your tactics/powers to the rest of their ilk and find an adapation. So, every encounter was like a quick time event in a modern game, as you tried to take it out as fast as possible, or find a way to keep them from contacting another Sentinel.
    (remember, this was the 80's, wifi/subspace uplinks were barely thought of, and computers were giant behemoths that took up your whole table)

    Now i know that the Borg probably have some preset adapations (shielding for phasers, for examples), but if you could cut a drone off from the collective, could you prevent them from adapting?

    Oh, and the best adaptation for a tiger trap is ground penetrating radar.
    Or a jetpack.
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  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Tricky View Post
    Now i know that the Borg probably have some preset adapations (shielding for phasers, for examples), but if you could cut a drone off from the collective, could you prevent them from adapting?
    I doubt it. The drones probably have redundant information storage, like the various atavistic information in our DNA, which give it a wide repertoire of responses to stimuli.
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  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King View Post
    I doubt it. The drones probably have redundant information storage, like the various atavistic information in our DNA, which give it a wide repertoire of responses to stimuli.
    BUT. It might stop the collective from learning and adapting... So that might at least allow you to use all possible weapons and work out which one works and allow it to work again later!
    DanG/Darth Gurden
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  12. #27
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    At what limits can an individual borgs, and thus the entirety of the collective, adapt against physical attacks? I can imagine that physical attacks require mostly physical upgrades. For that Drone 1053687 has to wait in line to get the new hardware upgrade.

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  13. #28
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    Do they? In first contact, you see Lt. Hawk get attacked, and next time you see him he's got all sorts of Borg appliances on his face. Apparently they "grew" there, built from nanites. So, if they can start to assimilate (oh, and don't forget the fact he was acting like a Drone) and create Borg tech in his flesh in a matter of minutes, then perhaps they can do things like reinforce body armor (and those tubes), mend flesh (everyone knows nanites do that), and spot weld broken Borg carpaces.
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  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Tricky View Post
    Do they? In first contact, you see Lt. Hawk get attacked, and next time you see him he's got all sorts of Borg appliances on his face. Apparently they "grew" there, built from nanites. So, if they can start to assimilate (oh, and don't forget the fact he was acting like a Drone) and create Borg tech in his flesh in a matter of minutes, then perhaps they can do things like reinforce body armor (and those tubes), mend flesh (everyone knows nanites do that), and spot weld broken Borg carpaces.
    Borg getting up minutes—or days—after the players assume they're safely phasered is too good to leave out. 'Regeneration' begins with exactly that, actually.
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  15. #30
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    I suppose it depends on which version of the Bog the GMwishes to use, and how tough he wants them to be.

    The problem with an uber-menace like the Borg is that familiarity breeds contempt. The more often the Borg show up and are defeated, the less impresseive they become.

    If the GM is running nearly all powerful Borg that can really adatp, like in thieir first appearance, then they would find a way to adapt to physical weapons-probably power armor.

    If the GM is running Borg like they are in Voyager, turning off the ships lights might prove a near insurmountable obstacle.

    It is hard to believe that the Borg never had to face physical attacks and firearms before and have no defenses against them. More like they aren't a big enough obstacle for them to bother defending against-most of the time. So what if a couple of drones get damaged or destroyed-the collective marches on. But if a target species relied on some sort pf physical defense the Borg probably have some standardized defense that would be implemented once casualties rates exceed a certain level. If Picard had stared mass replicating Tommy Guns, the Borg would have done something. But they didn't need to adapt just to protect a couple of drones.

    Of course whatever adaptations the Borg make must have some restrictions-just so the PCs can defeat them . If the Borg can perfectly adapt to any threat, the PCs would have no way od beating them!

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