Small Starfleet ship

[Kalum666]

I am looking for a ship smaller than the Oberth Class but that is not a shuttle.

Any idea?

She would be a ship used for the training of cadets (following a significant training they would be in charge of it for some final exercises) . Ideally she would have a bridge similar to an Oberth with all the standard stations (captain chair, conn, tactical...) but would not be unnecessarily big.

Since my campaign is set in 2360, I don't think Danube class is already out there.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

The Oberth is already pretty small. The Erewhon class could work, but finding images of it might be hard. Your best bet, given the time, is the "Raven" type (Aerie class in CODA). It's got a bridge that could fit a PC party size group of cadets.

[IceGiant]

I will second The Tatterdemalion King on the Aerie (If you use the plans modified by Owen, it now has the shuttlecraft the MSD showed.), or the Ju'Day class will work. Owen has new and improved deck plans for them as well. It's older, but still very usable.

[Sea Tyger]

The Sydney-class, though old, is still in operation in 2360; it's a small ship, but would be useful as a training ship.

[Kalum666]

Thanks for the recommendations.

Aerie-class is nice but I think I prefer the look of Sydney-class.

On a more general topic what do you think about the idea of cadets passing the Kobayashi Maru on a real ship rather than a simulator?

[The Tatterdemalion King]

The Sydney class is definitely not a small ship.

[Kalum666]

I thought it was just a passenger shuttle with warp nacelles. The one on this charity is 26m long and its section is matching (although the warp nacelles ain't there).


http://www.st-minutiae.com/misc/rena...uttlecraft.gif

But then can you accommodate a crew of 36 (according to memory beta) and the following bridge?

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ga...lan-bridge.jpg

[Aldaron]

There's always the "Atlantic" class, which is a similar length to a "Danube", but has two decks, and an extremely modular design.

[Kalum666]

Quite nice. Also have an older and less martial (when not including the side light pulse phasers) feel than the Runabout.

I can see that being used between movie and TNG eras. Could be the ancestor of the Danube-Class.

[Aldaron]

Really? Okay, I hadn't thought of it like that.
I was looking at 79+ registry, coupled with what I saw as a really new design, and was thinking it was post-Dominion War.

[Kalum666]

Well I think it is supposed to be post-dominion but the curvy and soft lines reminds me more of early TNG.

I find that the lines of Danube-Class and bigger post dominion ships like the Sovereign-Class are more agressive

The integrated warp "nacelles" (or lack of nacelles) is the only thing that doesn't feel TNG or Movie Era. Actually I don't really "get" the circular shape of these and bussard locations. I could always say that these are early experiments of what will be developed for the Defiant, Delta Flyer...

In any case love the look of that one and the concept of exchangeable pods.

Think I'll have a couple of these around my take on the Academy. They'll be used for training and to conduct experiments. I'll name them after famous Universities/Cities symbolic of knowledge: Oxford, Sorbonne, Hoshino, Alexandria, Bologna, Göttingen...

[The Tatterdemalion King]

In any case love the look of that one and the concept of exchangeable pods.

You don't see it on screen, but the Danube's design incorporates modular replacements for their interior pods.

I thought it was just a passenger shuttle with warp nacelles. The one on this charity is 26m long and its section is matching (although the warp nacelles ain't there).

That's the movie shuttle that they re-used for the Sydney model. On the Sydney version you can see multiple decks' worth of windows and a bridge module, indicating its size to be somewhere over 200m (as the ex-astris article lays out). Hence, as you pointed out, the crew size and the bridge set.

EDIT: I just noticed now, but it looks like the nacelles, bridge and impulse set seem to come from an ERTL Reliant kit...

[Kalum666]

That's the movie shuttle that they re-used for the Sydney model. On the Sydney version you can see multiple decks' worth of windows and a bridge module[/url], indicating its size to be somewhere over 200m (as the ex-astris article lays out). Hence, as you pointed out, the crew size and the bridge set.

EDIT: I just noticed now, but it looks like the nacelles, bridge and impulse set seem to come from an ERTL Reliant kit...

I got confused when I read that a re-used shuttle model. I though Sydney-Class was therefore the same size. However it is indeed just a spare part. The shuttle and the ship have actually nothing in common and certainly not their size.

I think I'll go for the Atlantic-Class.

Still, it is quite a tricky question. When does a ship get so small that it is a shuttle and not a ship anymore ? When the skills used goes from Vehicle Operation (Shuttlecraft) to Shipboard Systems (Flight Control)?

Also after seeing Into Darkness (Sulu in the chair moment), I think that these Academy ships won't have a "captain chair" (instead just a seat/station runabout style). I'll keep that "first time in the chair" moment for later in the campaign.

[Dan Gurden]

Still, it is quite a tricky question. When does a ship get so small that it is a shuttle and not a ship anymore ? When the skills used goes from Vehicle Operation (Shuttlecraft) to Shipboard Systems (Flight Control)?

Good question.

Personally those 2 skills are pretty interchangable for standard navigation and flight control. I tend to look on the Vehicle Ops (Shuttlecraft) as a general indication of flight hours put in flying shuttles (at least at the start). But it does mean that if your crew have a higher Ships Systems skill in an unopposed test they could use that instead.

In Opposed tests thats where they differ. When dogfighting and just how much control the character has. I suppose Vehicle Ops would cover atmospheric flight and landing a shuttle, and in space when the character is monitoring ALL flight activity on a smaller craft (higher difficulties due to multi-tasking?). While Flight Ops is somewhat easier as its more focused (as you know the Ops, Tactical and engineering stuff is being looked after elsewhere)