Decipher's LOTR rpg

[Cdr Scot II]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Steve Long:
I share everyone's concern about making a ME game that properly re-creates the high fantasy/uncommon magic feel of Tolkien. Magic in ME is rare, and usually subtle; it will require equally subtle rules and guidelines to simulate it properly.

Still, a close reading of the novels reveals more magic than one might suspect or recall. There aren't going to be any fireballs, that's for damn sure, but I'm not prepared to say at this time that we'll limit magic to the Maiar and elves.</font>

Fine by me - IIRC there are various small bits of magic used by others (esp. Dunedain) in the books - also use of the Unseen seems almost like psionics in some ways (see 'conversation' Gandalf, Galadriel and Elrond have around the campfire on the way back from Gondor at the end of ROTK). What would be important for me would be to move away from the Vancean/D&D style of systematised magic. Maybe magic in ME should revolve more around things that have power in themselves (songs, plants, places, etc). Of course, you gotta balance playability!

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Re: rules -- whether one rules set could, unchanged, work adequately both ST and ME is a big philosophical design issue that we probably shouldn't be debating here.</font>

Where do we debate it ?

Thinking about it, I suppose it depends how much you want to make the rules a house system, and how much 'core' rule detail they have to have as a base-line. I look forward to seeing how it is handled - there is such huge creativity in the RPG industry at the moment in the design of rules systems to simulate roleplaying environments! Devising a good system-fit must be almost as much fun as doing the setting stuff up for it !

Oh, and for the record, I loved RoleMaster in my formative years - I sold all my AD&D books just to get the Deluxe Boxed Set, and I never regretted it .

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"...and no, I don't play the bagpipes either!"

[This message has been edited by Cdr Scot II (edited 03-22-2001).]

[Liquidator Queeg]

This is great news! I've been a huge Tolkien fan since high-school (discovered his work late, I know) and, despite the many complaints I had with ICE's game system, I was always willing to play and GM games in the good Professor's world.

I can't wait to see what the game looks and plays like! She's definitely in good hands with the LUG boyz.

Steve

[Lolth-org]

With Steve Long on the writing team of LotR game I know that this product will definetly find it's way onto my shelf. I guess this means I will finally break down and start my fourth attempt to actually read the Silimarrion again, and try to keep the trilogy on my bookshelf .

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The pain, the pain. I think a neuron
just short circuited. *thud*

[calguard66]

I actually liked the system used in ICE MERP. It's my all time favorite fantasy system and setting. Detailed enough to handle player actions, but simple enough not to bog down play... and it seemed very "realistic" and internally consistent. I really, REALLY like it, and I still play it.

The best thing about MERP was the background detail and sourcebooks. "Arnor", "Minas Trith <?>", "The Shire", "Hands of the Healer"... all absolutely magnificent.

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[Liquidator Queeg]

*bump*

Has anyone started reading LoTR again (or for the first time) in anticipation of the film release in December? I re-read it again back in the fall of 2000, but I think I may have to go through it one more time before the movie or the RPG comes out.

As for Magic design issues, I definitely agree with the majority on this one: subtle and rare. One thing I would really love to see (as CDR Scot touches upon above) is rules or creation "guidelines" for magical devices. Perhaps similar--if not in style then in scope--to the laboratory activity rules in Ars Magica.

I've been exploring this "item creation" aspect of magic in the Fantasy ICON material I've developed (Yes! I'm still working on it, slowly but surely! ) because it's one aspect that I don't think a lot of fantasy games do justice to, aside from the aforementioned Ars Magica. I think too many games treat magic as a "combat option" for clerics and wizards, when it really should be something that completely shapes the game as a whole. After all, magic defines the "fantasy" genre, so it should also define a game system, IMHO.

Anyhoot, I just had some morning thoughts about the upcoming LoTR game, so I thought I'd bump this topic up to the top.

Steve

P.S. BTW, (Steve or Don?) is there any new teasers or updates we can squeeze out of you about the Decipher LoTR RPG?

[This message has been edited by Steven A Cook (edited 07-13-2001).]

[calguard66]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Don:
Some people were talking about the previous incarnation of MERP that was published by Iron Crown Enterprises. My first paying gig was with ICE and I've always loved their Rolemaster system (no, it's not for the faint of heart).

What I've found interesting is that some people liked MERP but hated RM, even though they shared the same system. Wierd...

Anyhow, Steve's heading up the new MERP, and after all that work he did on Wheel of Time, I'm sure is enjoying the fantasy groove that he's in.

It will be interesting to see the new Trek rules and how they will be adapted for the MERP game, however.

Any teasers, Steve?


</font>

ICE MERP is my all-time favorite fantasy RPG system, and Middle-Earth is a GREAT setting.

One thing I liked about MERP was that characters were balanced, it was more "realistic", combat was down right deadly, magic was toned down... an aid to man, not a crutch.

I liked the system, but don't like RM... MERP was flexible enough, covered the bases for the ME setting... without being outright crazy like RM.

I really, really, really, REALLY liked ICE's take on MERP.

Really...

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[Trinity Zeldis]

Stand back.

I am looking forward to MERP v2.0.

Please, no gasping.

I just believe that certain genres should have certain systems. RM was not the system for MERP IMNSHO.

So for those of you who think I degrade all new versions, releases, editions and what-nots, I say to you, "PFAH!" I am looking forward to this one.


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Sit.
Listen.
Challenge.
Learn.

[joeman]

Wow! It's nice to see some real interest outside of the core ICE groups I usually run in.

(Quick introduction - I'm the Middle-earth Editor for The Guild Companion.)

It's also nice to see some interplay with at least one of the guys that'll be working on the game (hi, Steve).

I am heartened by the early commitment to subtle magic. In my opinion, that was the one real failing of ICE's adaptation of RoleMaster to Middle-earth. I think most people who used the system to play in that setting made heavy modifications to the way they treated magic (there are several essays/articles in our ezine alone dealing with the subject). I don't know how many over-ambitious projects were started to write a system that really captured the essence of magic in M-e; it's not an easy task.

(If you'd be interested in seeing some of the results, let me know and I'll dig some up.)

Anyway, even though I have always been part of the ICE fold, and have been a ferocious defender of RoleMaster against the hordes of detractors who don't seem to like a lot of math (imagine!), I am greatly looking forward to the upcoming incarnation. The names I've seen attached to it are skilled veterans (is Monte going to be involved in the rules system?).

But most of all, I'm excited to see the movies right now. "My preciouusssssss....."
How creepy is THAT!?

-Joe

[Phantom]

You don't want to make the magic system too subtle, IMO. I like the way magic is dealt with in the novels, but if the magic is that "subtle" then "magic-users" basically become glorified Academicians. I think you need a little flash in the magic system, otherwise there isn't anything to pull people away from making fighters and the like. You need something right between the old ICE MERP magic system and what is shown in the novels.

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In the Praetors Name!

[calguard66]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Phantom:
You don't want to make the magic system too subtle, IMO. I like the way magic is dealt with in the novels, but if the magic is that "subtle" then "magic-users" basically become glorified Academicians. I think you need a little flash in the magic system, otherwise there isn't anything to pull people away from making fighters and the like. You need something right between the old ICE MERP magic system and what is shown in the novels.

</font>

If you recall from the books, by the end of the Third Age the only real mages were supernatural beings (Saron, Saruman, Gandalf, etc) or very ancient elves.

I would assume the existance of "hedge witches" and others who might know some minor spells (like Aragorn seemed to), but most magic should be ritual magic, or combined with other skills (herbalism for mystic cures, smithing for dwarven weapons and armor, etc) to create the desired effect.

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[Phantom]

Yeah, what he said.

Just what meant. Thank you.

BTW, I can't recall what happened at the end of the books, I'm only just nearing the finish of the second one. My comment was based on what I had read so far.

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In the Praetors Name!

[Liquidator Queeg]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Phantom:
BTW, I can't recall what happened at the end of the books, I'm only just nearing the finish of the second one. </font>

Pssst, Phantom ... The good guys win.

I hope I didn't spoil it for ya'!

Steve

[Phantom]

Funny Steven, funny.

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In the Praetors Name!

[Don Mappin]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by joeman:
Anyway, even though I have always been part of the ICE fold, and have been a ferocious defender of RoleMaster against the hordes of detractors who don't seem to like a lot of math (imagine!), I am greatly looking forward to the upcoming incarnation. The names I've seen attached to it are skilled veterans (is Monte going to be involved in the rules system?).</font>

If you’re referring to Monte Cook, to my knowledge, no. (However, I’ll confess to ignorance on this matter.) Steve Long, in all his epic goodness, is doing the majority of the work on LotR.

Monte, as you might know, left Wizards a few months ago and is doing contract work, primarily for Wizards, and launched his own d20 company, Malhavoc Press. He’s also been writing quite a bit of fiction, in particular Dark Matter. While working at Iron Crown Enterprises Monte worked mostly on the Rolemaster line and very little on MERP (any?). (Name Dropping Alert: Monte was my editor on my very first paying gig through ICE, Creatures & Treasures III.)

If you’re interested in more info on the system that’s going to be used with LotR then you’ll certainly want to take a look at the upcoming updates on the Star Trek game—they will employ the same core mechanics. (In playtest right now.)

I have faith in Steve to help guide the project and remain true to the source material, as “attention to detail” is his personal motto, tattooed on his right thigh in big, bold letters.


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[Phantom]

I know this has been asked before, and I am sorry to have to ask it again. But is there a tentative ETA for the LotR RPG?

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In the Praetors Name!