how StarTrek should have been?

[WaveMan]

I was just reading the post about StarTrek Ultimate and it piqued my interest,. I have long thought that Gene's vision of StarTrek was deeply flawed (because of when it was written) as in if you look at Futurists predictions (Future Timeline.net which uses computer modeling on historical events and input from many scientists and futurists) StarTrek would look completely different to how it was written.
Remember these are my thought's and I'm not trying to stir up trouble with anyone.

For one Transhuman's (genetically perfected, cybentically enhanced Homo-Superior) would populate Earth by 2300ad, with biological humans (homo-sapiens) being a very small minority. Homo-sapiens would have no say in how the planet is run (the world government would consist of sentient AI with transhuman input via the internet/full immersion virtual reality) or even understand the current technology (they wouldn't be able to even truly log in to the internet as they would not have encephalon's implanted (nanite based micro computers blending the human mind with AI implants in their brains, expanding the hosts intelligence and ability to process information) or the neural interfaces.
The clear prejudice against Augments contradicts Gene's vision of a "more enlightened and evolved humanity"

StarFleet would be a far more militant organization, especially as it seems to be based largely on the American naval fleet/early space program (America leads the way in space exploration and is the world leader, hence their influence is understandable), they would definitely have a "explore the universe/gather as much information as possible" mandate but that wouldn't negate the fact they would do so strongly. StarFleet personnel would have a firm foundation in military doctrine and in fact joining Starfleet would be the same as today if someone joined the Navy/army today (with the same expectation of commitment and danger)

I continue when I have time, Thought's so far?

[WaveMan]

example of a Homo-Superior
http://xeriar.com/oldwiki/Homo_supernus

nanites/catoms would be integrated into everyday use (for example nanite clothing would replace all other types of clothing), in fact they would be in us, enhancing us in an infinite amount of ways)

Androids and other synthetic life would be completely integrated into our society. Robots would also be everywhere. In fact some humans would choose to ascend into "avatar" form (bio-synthetic nanite constructed body, with their consciousness uploaded to a "neural-net")
http://future.wikia.com/wiki/Avatar_Sapiens

these Singularities (sentient AI's) and sentient synthetic life forms (artilects in startrek) would have the same rights as other sentient life. Robots would be programmed with the 3 laws of robotics, sentient programs would not be hampered by such limitations.

[WaveMan]

nanite's/catom's would be in daily use throughout society, including being integrated into our bodies (encephalon's would be made up of nanites, the full immersion virtual reality would require nanite interfaces, rapid healing would use nanites etc).
An example of nanite tech would be nanite clothing
http://www.futuretimeline.net/21stce...uture-clothing
catoms would be used in many area's of our society (programmable matter constructed furniture, surfaces, building, clothing etc)

here's what a transhuman would look like
http://xeriar.com/oldwiki/Homo_supernus

some humans would eventually ascend to become avatar's
http://future.wikia.com/wiki/Avatar_Sapiens

Sentient Andriods (artilect's) and sentient AI programs (singularities) would be fully integrated into human society. Robots would also be everywhere (all programmed with the 3 laws)

[The Tatterdemalion King]

For one Transhuman's (genetically perfected, cybentically enhanced Homo-Superior) would populate Earth by 2300ad, with biological humans (homo-sapiens) being a very small minority.

The thing is, that is literally a fascist imagining of the purpose and production of genetic engineering. I'm not being facetious or hyperbolic; rather, it is specifically a contemporary recapitulation of the Social Darwinistic expression of fascist state mythology that the intervention of technology in human lives would create a superior 'strain' of human that would render the previous obsolete. Trek's identification of ideas of 'engineered superiority' with totalitarianism and the critique thereof is actually still totally relevant.

[WaveMan]

I have made posts in this thread that have to approved (WTF) that would expand on the OP.

as far as the human genetic thread and Gene's obvious bias and prejudiced, I cit these examples, you have Vulcan's, who are basically "superior humans" (superior in intellect and physicality to humans) who do not show the problems augments were supposed to exhibit. Then there was the Denobulan's who had used genetic engineering for century's and again no mental aberrations. Then they continuously reinforced that human genetic engineering was "bad" and caused all kinds of megalomania and mental aberrations. It would have been far more realistic (and follow current treading and future modelling) if Augments adopted "hides emotions" or some sort of code of honor and assumed the role of care takers of Earth.
My point is human genetic engineering will happen and eventually a Homo-superior will exist, and Homo-sapiens will go the way of Neanderthal, it is inevitable. Anyway who wouldn't want to be smarter, stronger, faster, live with out ever becoming sick, live forever (or at least many century's) etc.

Read Future Timeline.net and you will have a glimpse at how Earth may turn out, modeled on current events and futurists projections, it is completely different to how StarTrek went. I point is I suppose, I would have preferred a more realistic StarTrek rather then pure fiction.

BTW Transhumanism doesnt have to be fascist or fascist imaging, there are a vast array of Transhumanists, I like Libatarian Transhumanism personally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_transhumanism
you are making generalizations that are incorrect.

[Owen E Oulton]

Actually, Transhumanism WAS specifically dealt with in TOS. Remember Khan? The Eugenics Wars which came out of it put a permanent bad taste for gengineering in the mouths of Earth. Bashir is a Transhuman. Trek just took a different tack on the "this is good and inevitable" philosophy you're espousing.

To quote you, "you are making generalizations that are incorrect.".

[Cpt. Lundgren]

I have made posts in this thread that have to approved (WTF) that would expand on the OP.

There is a anti spam filter that checks the first few posts of member, and it appear to be a bit overzealous. I have approved the posts and modified the threshold a bit.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

as far as the human genetic thread and Gene's obvious bias and prejudiced, I cit these examples, you have Vulcan's, who are basically "superior humans" (superior in intellect and physicality to humans) who do not show the problems augments were supposed to exhibit.

Except for the half a million years of war before Surak. The idea that society consists of individuals or clades of individuals in constant class-warfare with each other, though the underlying assumption of our current economic structure, is an idea that Trek explicitly rejects.

[WaveMan]

There is a anti spam filter that checks the first few posts of member, and it appear to be a bit overzealous. I have approved the posts and modified the threshold a bit.

thanks for that mate, I actually made the second post because I didn't know was going on (sorry that most of the info is repeated, but I will leave it there)

[WaveMan]

Actually, Transhumanism WAS specifically dealt with in TOS. Remember Khan? The Eugenics Wars which came out of it put a permanent bad taste for gengineering in the mouths of Earth. Bashir is a Transhuman. Trek just took a different tack on the "this is good and inevitable" philosophy you're espousing.

To quote you, "you are making generalizations that are incorrect.".

true and that was part of my point, as in the underlying bias against augments and the inconsistency shown in many of the themes. As far as being "good" maybe for the Transhumans, but IMHO very bad for Homo-Sapiens(whom I am a proud member of BTW), as they would be little better then second class civilians with a similar status as a service robot.

I am sorry if I give the impression that I am an augment lover, rather my point is that it is inevitable so why not explore it. I really liked the adventure thread in All Our Yesterdays and Khan Ascendant (p34). I personally think the Augments would have eventually won the Eugenics war.
this is how I reckon the time line would look like
http://future.wikia.com/wiki/Scenario:_Homo_Novus

Except for the half a million years of war before Surak.

and then thousands of years of peace after embracing logic and emotion suppression. I postulate that would happen in the same way with the Homo-Superior/Homo-Sapiens transition and as I said above IMHO the Eugenic war would have gone far differently to how startrek portrayed (prime universe). This is basic evolution (a concept I do embrace as an atheist)

[The Tatterdemalion King]

This is basic evolution (a concept I do embrace as an atheist)

Except that evolution doesn't make value-judgements—there can be no 'Homo Superior' without a culture which inherits class-distinctive language—merely another variation of the homo genus, one which may outcompete other genuses for local resources or not. (I tend to agree with Gould about the importance of environment-structuring in the evolutionary process, something that directly contradicts the pseudo-Neitzschean individual-worship that much of transhumanist value-judgement is predicated on.) You are not superior to the bacteria in your gut, just differently adapted. Trek's future human culture, as we just said, rejects the idea that local adaption merits any consideration of social or economic superiority. For illustration, see Geordi's conversation with Bochra in 'The Enemy' over differing treatment of disability in Human and Romulan cultures. Instead, the fact of their being an experiential being is more important than any specifics of physical capability.

Furthermore, the belief in a hierarchial relationship with other beings in the same ecosystem betrays a lack of functional understanding of the actual relationships that exist between the component parts of that ecology, or even the economic structures which produce genetically engineered life today.

and then thousands of years of peace after embracing logic and emotion suppression

Thousands of years of peace... except for all the wars.

EDIT: Here's an okay post on the subject.

[WaveMan]

yeah I should have said homo-novus (new man) rather then homo-superior (I understand what you are saying and agree transhumanism can be very elitist).

As far as the Geordi character is concerned I always felt it was a scientifically flawed plot line, Federation medical science would have screened all pregnancy's for genetic abnormalities and birth defects (as he was described as being afflicted with) (trimester scans, we do them today) and corrected any problems simply as standard practice.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Geordi_La_Forge

[Owen E Oulton]

Transhumanism is one possible way for the future to unfold. It is not inevitable. Trek has explicitly taken another path. That does not make it scientifically "wrong" As I pointed out, it has dealt with the issue rather than ignoring it. In Trek's future history, Earth has had a very bad experience with Transhumanism, and may well have thrown the baby out with the bathwater, but it hhas acknowledged that.

Historically, Earth cultures have made decisions that have had long-ranging effects, both for good and for evil. Likewise, Trek has rejected Cyberpunk's view of the future and has made cyborgs (in the form of the Borg) something of which to be suspicious. Yet you don't hear Cyberpunk fans coming here and complaining that Trek is therefore "wrong". Also, Trek does not see an Asmovian/Star Wars future where humaniform robots are ubiquitous, nor does it see a future with superheroes like Guardians of the Galaxy... These are all different types of Science Fiction. Trek is a Space Opera, and proud of it. There's room for everything in SF. Trek is not the be-all and end-all, but neither is Transhumanism, Cyberpunk, Robot Utopia or anything else..

You're just complaining, in effect, that a banana should taste more citrusy. Now, if you wanted to discuss what Star Trek might look like if it had embraced Transhumanism, that might be an interesting discussion.

[Dan Gurden]

Earth has had a very bad experience with Transhumanism, and may well have thrown the baby out with the bathwater, but it hhas acknowledged that.

More than acknowledged its scripted in DS9 Doctor Bashir I Presume. After Bashir Genetic modification is added / revealed. An Admiral points out that the Tans Human ban on Starfleet service is because for each Bashir there is a risk of a Khan Soong

This episode also seems to indicate a slight careful re-wording of the Federatio ban on GM Humans that indicates that Trans-human do indeed exist, but the elitism works in reverse impeeding these Trans Human from position of authority.

Anyway point being that this issue is indeed addressed, and it may be that there is room for further redress, but I am not convinced that Trek got it 'wrong'. Maybe a good place to start would be in an alternative universe episode, or perhaps a campaign leaving a cew there for a period to explore both the good and the bad?

[Aldaron]

I think Picard summed up the general Federation attitude to genetic manipulation of humans in the episode "The Masterpiece Society":

"They have given their humanity away to this genetic manipulation... many of the qualities they breed out -- the uncertainty, the self-discovery, the unknown - those are the very qualities that make Human life worth living... at least to me. I would not like to live with the knowledge that much of my future has been written, that my boundaries have been set. Would you?"

At the same time, however, Picard says in "Justice" that Federation science can "detect the seeds of criminality" (or words to that effect). The implication - at least to me - is that brain structures that can identify sociopathy and psychopathy can be detected and corrected via some sort of genetic modification. I guess it becomes a question of where the line is drawn...and the line between correcting a flaw and enhancing an ability is a very fuzzy one indeed.