Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 27 of 27

Thread: Cardassians in the 22nd Century

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    3,456
    I would think that they entered their expansionist phase during the late 22nd century, possibly taking as much as 50 years to really get rolling. This expansion would have been relatively slow and ponderous, as they took over (or, as you say, "invited to join the Cardassian Union") various planets and either culturally assimilated them (like the Nazi programmes of "Aryanisation") or exploited and strip-mined them, like Bajor. I don't see in happening any later than the mid-23rd century. I see them having acquired the spiral-wave disruptor early on in their campaigns and using it as their primary offensive weapon. They may not have had a really large fleet, just enough to do their expansion.

  2. #17
    I get the strong feeling from DS9 that Bajor is the only planet with an indigenous culture that the Cardassians took over. The next-most-mentioned planet/people in the Cardassian sphere of influence is Lisseppia, and Morn was hiding from them on a Cardassian space station. If there are other Cardassian-occupied worlds, you need to start answering a giant pile of questions: was the Bajoran occupation SOP? If not, do they have a SOP? If they don't, why? Did Bajorans reach out to establish solidarity and a united front with other victims of Cardassian imperialism, or vice versa? If they were still occupied by Cardassia after Bajor was freed, what support did Bajor provide (or not provide)? How do they relate to the Maquis and vice versa?
    Portfolio | Blog Currently Running: Call of Cthulhu, Star Trek GUMSHOE Currently Playing: DramaSystem, Swords & Wizardry

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    United States of America
    Posts
    863
    TTK: I get the impression that, while Bajor may be the only planet that they outright conquered and whose population they enslaved, the Cardassians most likely had a hegemony consisting of several planets, both populated and otherwise. The difference between the Bajorans and the other "member races," I would think, is based on the Cardassians' cost-benefit analysis. That is to say, they look at the benefits of conquering versus simply applying military and economic pressure, measuring if the expenditure of resources is worth the potential return.

    The Bajorans, with a resource-rich planet and minimal military capabilities, were an easy conquest versus, say, the Lurians, whose [hypothetically] resource-poor and/or militarily-powerful world was more trouble that it was worth to attempt outright invasion. Instead, the Lurians are pressured by the Cardassians into lopsided trade agreements while the majority of the Cardassian fleet sits in orbit. They are then afforded second-class citizenship in the Cardassian Union, along with the benefit of older, non-military technologies that the Cardassian consider non-essential and not worth protecting.

    In the unpublished Cardassian materials from the honorable Steve Kenson, the Union consists of several "tiers" of membership, ranging from colony worlds populated by Cardassians, to "allies" that were simply too powerful to conquer outright or even threaten into membership but who still had something that the Cardassians really wanted, to the aforementioned members pressured into joining out of fear of potential invasion, and the "protectorates," or worlds that offered great rewards, were incapable of fighting off an invasion, or both.

    I think that the Cardassian Union probably consists primarily of Cardassian colonies, but certainly has at least a handful of "members-under-pressure" as well as a few allies and at least one enslaved race (i.e. the Bajorans) at some point in their history. Maybe you're right that the subjugation and occupation of Bajor is the exception rather than the rule, but maybe not. Maybe they had another Bronze or Iron Age world on the far side of their territory that nobody knew about. Maybe they died of starvation or disease, or mabye the Cardassians saturation-bombed them from orbit. Or maybe they're still enslaved and mining dilithium on a polluted industrial cesspool of a planet, laboring under the yoke of Cardassian overlords...

    mactavish out.
    Our country's past progress has been the result, not of the mass mind applying average intelligence to the problems of the day, but of the brilliance and dedication of wise individuals who applied their wisdom to advance the freedom and the material well-being of all of our people.

    -Conscience of a Conservative, Barry Goldwater

  4. #19
    NECRO

    Since I want to set the series I'm gearing up to run somewhere within the range of Cardassian exploration—unexplored space which has both Federation and Cardassian survey vessels in it—I've been giving more thought to the Cardassian imperialism question.

    There's plenty of people which are said to be Cardassian 'allies,' or 'working for the Cardassians,' like the Xepolites, the Kressari or the Valerians, but who are not described as vassals or explicitly politically dominated by Cardassia. Also, the combination of the term 'Cardassian Union' and early Bajoran references in TNG describing the conquest of Bajor as one of colonization and Cardassian settlement instead of simply economic exploitation makes it sound like the ultimate goal—regardless of how closely they got it it—was to get rid of the Bajorans entirely and turn Bajor into a Cardassian resort, worthy of inclusion in the 'Cardassian Union' as a planet of Cardassians instead of one merely controlled by Cardassians. This makes them distinctive from the Klingons, who seem to be cool with installing a Klingon overclass over a native population and declaring it a Klingon fief, or the Romulans, whose imperialism is specifically on the Roman model (which in TNG LUG is up to and including the 'citizenship through military service' option for conquered peoples). While this means that Bajorans would not have necessarily found common cause with other conquered planets, the 'Bajoran experience' may have been replicated before the Occupation in other parts of what is now the Union, so there may be an 'independent' or 'Cardassian-allied' colony that is a reserve for another displaced species somewhere.

    That said, as the history of 21st-century neocolonialism demonstrates, you don't need to have your flag waving over a capital to dominate a country. I'm going to assume that Cardassians have exploitive economic relationships with these 'allies,' in which Cardassian technological support, Cardassian ownership of local property and military backing for Cardassian-enriched local elites allows them to maintain their exploitation without having to be too obvious about it.
    Portfolio | Blog Currently Running: Call of Cthulhu, Star Trek GUMSHOE Currently Playing: DramaSystem, Swords & Wizardry

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    3,456
    Of course they're publicly considered "allies", just like 1960's Vietnam and Cuba were allies of the Soviets. Satrapies come in many flavours, including early influences on the political and economic infrastructure, so that home-grown movements actively work within their own societies to move their governments to come under Cardassian influence. Sort of like the Nazis thought they were doing with Austria and the Sedetenland in the late 1930's, only perhaps more successful in hiding their true intentions. The original Detapa council may originally have had more altruistic motives, not unlike the British "White Man's Burden" of the Raj. Originally, they may have intended to merely "uplift" the societies (in a distinctly non-Brin sense) Bajor, on the other hand, may have been too valuable and the Bajorans more resistant to cultural change (remember, they had actual evidence for their Prophets) and thus were ripe for the likes of Dukat.

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by mactavish View Post
    Having read and reread the information about the Cardassians presented in the Deep Space Nine Narrator's Toolkit, the DS9 core book, and Steve Kenson's unpublished Cardassian works, I have decided to begin introducing the Cardassian Union and its military just prior to the founding of the Federation.

    The biggest question that I have is this: how would you introduce them? A chance encounter with a far-ranging gul exploring potential new client worlds (i.e. pre-warp, resource-rich planets)? A hostile encounter with an already-subjugated client world (i.e. Cardassian forces engage the PCs' vessel)? A secondary meeting through Vulcan allies (who still seem to know everyone in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants)? A lone Cardassian traveling with a multiracial crew? A political exile with a story about a once-great people fallen on hard times?

    Information presented in Star Trek Enterprise suggests that the Cardassians were capable of interstellar travel by the mid-22nd century ("Observer Effect", "Dead Stop"), so it seems unlikely that there isn't at least cursory contact by the dawn of the 23rd century.

    I know that the Federation and the Cardassians fought a war in the mid-24th century, but is there anything stating that there were no hostilities prior to that? I assume the Cardassian War (or Border War) was merely the culmination of a series of smaller conflicts that had gone on for years or decades, particularly given the Cardassian penchant to shoot first and ask questions later.

    Second question: what would 22nd-century Cardassian vessels look like (statistically speaking)? I imagine that they look significantly similar to the Galor-class vessels of the 24th century, so that's where I'd like to focus. Also, as they are not really built for exploration, their vessels should be militarily-powerful, but I don't consider them as advanced as the Andorians or Klingons, and certainly not the Vulcans or Romulans. I think that they should be comparable to the vessels fielded by Earth Starfleet, perhaps with better weapons and defenses but perhaps lower warp capabilities and sensors (?).

    I really hesitated using them in a pre-Federation Series before, but they have so much potential that I really want to explore them further.

    As always, questions and comment are fervently solicited.

    mactavish out.
    It has been 15 years but one of my players had an encyclopedia entry about the first contact being by "Admiral Sulu;" this wold make it after Undiscovered Country. We also know from DS9 the y emerged from a dark century (without shipbuilding) "a little over a century ago."
    Last edited by AntyCrist; 05-02-2016 at 12:19 AM. Reason: compleeting

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by AntyCrist View Post
    We also know from DS9 the y emerged from a dark century (without shipbuilding) "a little over a century ago."
    What episode is that referenced in?
    Portfolio | Blog Currently Running: Call of Cthulhu, Star Trek GUMSHOE Currently Playing: DramaSystem, Swords & Wizardry

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King View Post
    What episode is that referenced in?
    my notes are still at my parents house. Ill have to find them dig thrue them and get back to you.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King View Post
    What episode is that referenced in?
    looks like tng 6-11 not ds9 acording to my gm notes

  10. #25
    Portfolio | Blog Currently Running: Call of Cthulhu, Star Trek GUMSHOE Currently Playing: DramaSystem, Swords & Wizardry

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King View Post
    MADRED is the speaker. that is a slightly difrent version than I watched. But it was in what yours calls act 1 sean 12 (your version has shortened that seen by 60%.

  12. #27
    Here's the commonly-used transcript.
    Portfolio | Blog Currently Running: Call of Cthulhu, Star Trek GUMSHOE Currently Playing: DramaSystem, Swords & Wizardry

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •