d20 Question: Klingon Weapon stats.

[prophetsteve]

The Mek-leth did seem small, like some hideously deformed Gladius (Roman Short Sword) rather than a Bastard Sword...

[REG]

Actually, more like a hideously deformed machete. But such a weapon stat would be an equivalent to a short sword.

That is, if the correct illustration of the weapon is portrayed correctly in the Star Trek Encyclopedia.

------------------
Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

[tonyg]

Outside of RPGs the distinction between longknife and shortsword is non-existant. The overall size of a Kurkri, the "forward bent" chopping knife of the Gurkhas really seems to fit the bill for Mek'leths.

I'll admit, a D4 weapon with 18-20 threat range isn't that great in D&D, but seems more accurate that a shortsword.

[prophetsteve]

Not really. The D&D stats are abstract (no difference between a stilletto and a large hunting knife).

Knives do not have the capacity to remove limbs as easily as the Mek'Leth was shown to do in First Contact (a Borg no less).

As why I would say its at least a short sword rather than a long knife - damage wise that is.

[Liquidator Queeg]

Well, I watched First Contact last night for the singular purpose of figuring out the stats for this weapon. OK, that wasn't the sole reason, but I digress.

Note: Prepare for a needlessly long discussion of medieval weapon lengths and weights by a total non-authority.

After watching the scene where Worf whacks the borg outside the ship (on the hull, actually), I'm inclined to agree with REG and prophetsteve--the shortsword is a better fit than the kukri or a long knife, or a longsword for that matter. However, by virtue of the mek'leth's weight, I still contend that the D&D longsword's damage dice is suitable.

A medieval short sword averaged between 28 and 34 inches, with a blade length of 22 to 28 inches. A typical "sword" (or longsword, to use the D&D vernacular) averaged between 30 and 38 inches, with a blade length of 24 to 32 inches. The hand-and-a-half sword (or D&D's bastard sword) averaged between 40 and 50 inches, with a blade length of 32 to 38 inches. Daggers averaged between 15 and 20 inches, with a blade length of 10 to 15 inches. However, some daggers were even smaller.

Please note that some weapon designs cross or muddy these rough boundaries, or even exceed them. For example, Scottish claymores were considered either a one or two-handed sword, but were often longer than the typical hand-and-a-half sword. And the Dagesse (4th century sword) or Coer de Lion (11-12th century sword), at roughly 35 inches (27 inch blades), are usually regarded as short swords, although they could also be considered "long" swords.

According to the LUG DS9 book, a mek'leth is 70 cm in length, or 27.559 inches. Thus, blade shape aside, one could say that the mek'leth should have the damage of a short sword, since it is the D&D weapon that most accurately fits the 27.5 inch length of a mek'leth.

However, the mekleth is clearly heavier than the average short sword, which is roughly 2 to 3 lbs from what I understand (perhaps 4 lbs if it was exceptionally long--although it might not then be called a "short" sword). The mek'leth (according to LUG) is 2.5 kg, or 5.5 lbs.

So, we're left with two choices, AFAIC. One, use the short sword damage dice from D&D, using the length as a guideline. Or two, stick with the longsword damage dice since the mek'leth is heavier than a medieval short sword, even if it is just under the short sword length scale.

Or combine the two and use those hard-to-find d7s.

As far as throwing goes, I guess that capability should be left for the DM to use or ignore. Just like the rest of the stats, I suppose. As always, YMMV.

Steve
... continuing the debate.

------------------
Steve's Roleplaying Resources
http://www.oil.ca/~goforit/stevehome.html
E-mail: goforit@oil.ca

[This message has been edited by Steven A Cook (edited 09-01-2001).]

[REG]

Hmm... I still don't know about giving such a weapon a longsword damage, including the critical threat range. I am more inclined to give it a shortsword's damage (1d6) with a longsword's critical threat range (19-20/x2).

Plus there is something about the design of the Mek'Leth (weird as it is) that have other combat purpose. To me, it has the ability to "hook" an opponent's weapon and disarm it.

If anything, I'd give the weapon a Small size category, allowing a Medium-sized Klingon to use Weapon Finesse, if they wish to.

Anybody have an expert analysis on the design of this Klingon weapon that could be useful during combat, besides hacking the opponents to pieces?

------------------
Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

[Liquidator Queeg]

I absolutely agree about the disarming maneuver. However, since virtually any weapon can be used to disarm in D&D, I don't see how we could adjust (or cater) the mek'leth basic stats to reflect it. Maybe a +2 bonus or something? (I think you suggested that earlier, REG.) I'd suggest that the bonus only applies if you have the exotic weapon proficiency feat, though.

The short sword/longsword damage factor is pretty much a matter of personal taste, I guess. However, the D&D short sword and longsword have the same threat range, so I don't see how that is an issue.

Of course, if the weapon is primarily intended for orc nasties, there's no reason the DM couldn't just say that the weapon is actually longer and heavier than the "Trek" mek'leth and use the longsword or even bastard sword stats. It could be called the elf-splitter, or some suitably orcish name.

Steve

------------------
Steve's Roleplaying Resources
http://www.oil.ca/~goforit/stevehome.html
E-mail: goforit@oil.ca

[REG]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The short sword/longsword damage factor is pretty much a matter of personal taste, I guess. However, the D&D short sword and longsword have the same threat range, so I don't see how that is an issue.</font>

*smacks forehead*

You're right. What I mean to say ... hehehe ... is give the Mek'Leth a scimitar's threat range (18-20/x2).

And yeah, I suggested the bonus to disarm weapon with a Mek'Leth. I also agree that you can do so if you acquire the Exotic Weapon (Mek'Leth) Proficiency feat.

------------------
Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

[This message has been edited by REG (edited 09-02-2001).]

[Cmmdr JT Wayland]

Guys,
I agree with most people that the Met'Leth is similar to a kukri or a machete in design, but personally I think it's a Klingon version of a Iron-Age Hispanic Machera, a Medieval Falchion or a Japanese Wakizashi, especially the former and the later in terms of damage.
The Iron Age Spannish tribes had developed their Sword Manfucaturing techniques to the same level of sophistication as the Japanese Medeival Swordsmiths had 1500 years later.
Therefore I feel you should be thinking the Met'Leth as the Kinlingon equilant of a Wakizashi or a Falchion not a Longsword or a Bastard Sword.

------------------
"Those Klingons are up to something, I can feel it in my bones"
Cmmdr JT Wayland
Strategic Operations Officer, Starbase 415, Dragomer Sector, Klingon Border, 2372

[tonyg]

Folks,
You can decapitate someone with a Kurkri. Look at what the Gurkha did with them ( it can be done with a bowie knife, too). A kurkri isn't that far off from the machete in terms of mass or balance. Both a heavy, short, chopping blades. Come to think of it, functionally, a hatchet isn't far off either.

[REG]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Therefore I feel you should be thinking the Met'Leth as the Kinlingon equilant of a Wakizashi or a Falchion not a Longsword or a Bastard Sword.</font>

A real-world falchion or the falchion stat described in D&D3e? Just so you know, falchion in D&D3e is described as a two-handed scimitar (a Large weapon, 2d4 dmg, 18-20/x2 crit).

Maybe you meant to say scimitar (a Medium-size weapon, 1d6 dmg, 18-20/x2 crit), which is in my line of thinking.

------------------
Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

[tonyg]

Steven,

Don't have to increase the weight of the TREK Mek'leth or Bat'leth much for D&D. Considering thier sizes, the weapons are rather heavy, with the Me'leth tipping the scales at around 5 1/2 pounds. Considerably heavier that a broadsword. Bakconite must be made from depleted uranium!