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Thread: Nemesis, the film we could have seen

  1. #1
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    Nemesis, the film we could have seen


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    It would help if Berman had hired a director who hadn't expressed aan antipathy to the show, going so far as having refused to watch the show and having to be forced to watch the preceding movies. That should have been a warning signal. Baird is if anything a worse choice than JJ Abrams, and that's saying a lot. Using Lore rather than yet-another Data prototype would have solved some of the movie's logic problems, as would at least a line dealing with Wesley and Worf showing up. Ditch the sub-plot with Shinzon trying to destroy Earth, and replace it with something that doesn't involve trying to recreate the Mutara Nebula battle from TWOK (and failing miserably at it)...

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    yeah it was a disappointing movie, and I lament the fact that it was the last of real Trek movies (while I like the action and pace of the Abrams abominations I detest the way the time line was re-written and the massive flaws in the interpretations of the technology (transwarp beaming 90ly for example). I am still hoping for a new series but I am reasonably confident that will never happen, so we are left with fan based stuff.
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  4. #4
    I invite anyone who is still inflicting on themselves the hope that it could've been a better movie to absolve themselves of that hope by reading Logan's script.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King View Post
    I invite anyone who is still inflicting on themselves the hope that it could've been a better movie to absolve themselves of that hope by reading Logan's script.
    At the very least he was a fan of the franchise, not that all fan writing is good writing, but arguably better than someone who detested the franchise and was forced to make something within it. Either way, missed opportunity that is almost a decade old. Imagine, if it did work out well. We might not have JJTrek, but have moved on to see the aftermath of the Dominion Wars (which might have provided a good backdrop and reflection upon modern day global ails, after all SciFi is good at being a tool without being so on the nose/direct).

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  6. #6
    If he was such a fan of the series, he should probably have known about, oh, I don't know, Wesley leaving Starfleet or going off with the Traveller. Or address the Worf-Riker-Troi triangle (or "Hey Worf sorry to miss your wedding sorry she died before I could meet her"). And I think a lot of the false notes in the movie don't start with Baird but with the script itself, which never used an original descriptor when a reference to another film would do. For example, the 'lower decks' of the Ent-E looking like a set from Alien? How the hell does that fit into the last 30 years of Federation set design? And what about this plot—it's just an excuse to blow up some space ships, and gestures pitifully toward maybe kind of having some sort of moral point. Logan just doesn't seem to be in a headspace that got a lot of fundamental things about Star Trek.
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    as far as plots and progression goes I wish they would either do the Captain Riker/Luna class or jump ahead to the early 2400's and do Renaissance and the Enterprise-G. The other plot would be the sphere builders war in the 26th century, would be a great setting for a series IMHO.
    AKA-Dean
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    Wave Man, the term "wave man" is the English translation of 'Ronin' (Japanese word) and literately translates to "wandering person" and in a modern context a WaveMan is one who is socially adrift or a SalaryMan who is between employers.

  8. #8
    I have said it before a loooooong time ago. A personal re-edit in my head has the events in Nemesis orchestrated and manipulated behind the scenes by Sela. Suddenly this simple inclusion plays all sides with a personal vendetta against Picard, access to Picard's DNA and knowledge of what strings to pull with his command crew. Also her rank and influence within the Tal Shiar along with her own personal agenda and revenge against the Romulan state for treating her as an outsider herself along with the many times they seemed to cut her loose when things looked bad. it also provides the link that was missing to seek the creation of the Scimitar and access to the ranking political types that were likely to choose Shinzons plan to assassinate the Imperial heirarchy over the glory gained in turning in the plot of a minor alien subversive.

    Also. Sela got away with it.

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by WaveMan View Post
    as far as plots and progression goes I wish they would either do the Captain Riker/Luna class or jump ahead to the early 2400's and do Renaissance and the Enterprise-G. The other plot would be the sphere builders war in the 26th century, would be a great setting for a series IMHO.
    I think a movie about a problem resolved in another episode of another series featuring completely different characters might be a hard sell.
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    The whole Temporal Cold War and the Sphere Builders plot wasn't terribly popular with most fans an would probably be a real no-go Lets just hope that Renegades gets green-lit. It looks good, even though they'd have to re-work the awful uniforms. I've seen better costumes at ComicCon!

  11. #11
    Good read. Thank you for posting. I wasn't aware of all the behind the scene things because I hadn't actually bought the DVD. I have seen the movie a few times and each time I think that there is the potential for a good movie but it just didn't make it to the big screen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Owen E Oulton View Post
    The whole Temporal Cold War and the Sphere Builders plot wasn't terribly popular with most fans an would probably be a real no-go Lets just hope that Renegades gets green-lit. It looks good, even though they'd have to re-work the awful uniforms. I've seen better costumes at ComicCon!
    all valid points, then the other setting would be the far future, 2800's or even further, say 31st century, though again this is right in the middle of the Temporal Cold War, though they could concentrate on exploration of out side the Milky Way (QSS is fully realized and perfected by 26th century and allows for viable inter-galactic travel)

    I would also like the "Voyager returns to the Delta Quadrant" plot line, using an QSS upgraded Voyager (and with a small flotilla of escort/support vessels) probably set around 2420. There was a series of novels about this.

    FYI Renaissances concentrates of the Federation just after the Federation/Sheliak war and showcases the emerging technologies that Voyager bought back integrated into the Enterprise-G.
    Last edited by WaveMan; 08-17-2015 at 05:01 PM.
    AKA-Dean
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    Wave Man, the term "wave man" is the English translation of 'Ronin' (Japanese word) and literately translates to "wandering person" and in a modern context a WaveMan is one who is socially adrift or a SalaryMan who is between employers.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gurden View Post
    I have said it before a loooooong time ago. A personal re-edit in my head has the events in Nemesis orchestrated and manipulated behind the scenes by Sela. Suddenly this simple inclusion plays all sides with a personal vendetta against Picard, access to Picard's DNA and knowledge of what strings to pull with his command crew. Also her rank and influence within the Tal Shiar along with her own personal agenda and revenge against the Romulan state for treating her as an outsider herself along with the many times they seemed to cut her loose when things looked bad. it also provides the link that was missing to seek the creation of the Scimitar and access to the ranking political types that were likely to choose Shinzons plan to assassinate the Imperial heirarchy over the glory gained in turning in the plot of a minor alien subversive.

    Also. Sela got away with it.

    It doesn't fix everything, after all its a behemoth of things going wrong. But it helps.
    This makes great head canon, and explains the presence of the megaship Scimitar and how the crew was able to build it without anyone knowing. While the days of the TNG crew were long in the tooth, there was the crew of DS9 and a movie could have looked at post DW Cardassian Union, or Gamma Quadrant.

    IMHO one of the reasons why TWoK worked so well was it was accessible to non-Star Trek fans, while also bringing up an enemy from the past which gave Star Trek fans a connection to the show which they loved and grew to love more in syndication. Many episodes do not wrap up their plots with a clear end, and in quarter of the galaxy with hundreds of thousands of solar systems, some with issues left not entirely solved (like any issue in real life is ever really solved (they often lead to the next problem) (like with Khan)) it leaves for more story telling.

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