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Thread: Death Penalty: Yea or Nay?

  1. #16
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    What is innocent? Who is innocent? Who tells us who is considered innocent?

  2. #17
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    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mactavish:
    Phatmo said:

    </font>
    I assume that was an unintentional mispelling?



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  3. #18
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    Wink

    Sorry 'bout that, Phatmo... err... PHANTOM.

    mactavish out.

  4. #19
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    Here's my Death Penalty plan:

    A nationwide vote on the subject, yes or no. BUT the votes are recorded, and who votes for what is logged.

    IF at any time in the future, assuming the Death Penalty becomes law, it is discovered that an innocent person has been executed under this law, then one of the pro-death voters will be choosen at random, and executed in the same way. To maintain cosmic balance...

    Human lives are not eggs to make an omlet...



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  5. #20
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    <font color="orange">If it happened to you, how would it alter your view?</font>

    If it becomes too close to me, then anyone who is suspect (with the exception of myself and close family members and relatives) must be punished. But then I am riding on my emotions and the urge to exact [air quote] "swift justice" for my loved one who was harmed or killed.

    IOW, my family is friends becomes more important than a fellow human stranger's life, who may or may not have committed the crime but that the police suspected and investigated him. And the deeper and longer they investigated him, the more I will conclude that the suspect is guilty.

    But the court and the justice system must be impartial, despite what the public "mob" says.

    Capital punishments must be reserved for the most blatants of serious crimes. And that there are more than sufficient evidence (uncontaminated DNA at the scene of the crime, numerous eyewitness accounts) to prove the defendant's guilt.

    Of course, I am afraid that there are now laws that allows the court to try a minor as an adult. Would capital punishments extend to them? I wonder how the British felt when they learned of the two young little boys convicted of raping and killing an even younger girl were released and under different identities. Should they be capitally punished or spend their childhood locked up in prison forever?

    Hmm. I wonder. If that girl had been my niece, would I feel guilty about wanting to have those two little boys sentenced to capital punishment?

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    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    [This message has been edited by REG (edited 07-23-2001).]

  6. #21
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    "Human lives are not eggs to make an omlet..."

    Tell that to the universe. I don't think it's heard.

    "i consider some of Bush`s politics as highly offensive and arrogant, he has caused diplomatic problems with the chinese already."

    I get such a kick out of this. Bush (and by extension, the US) is offensive and arrogant. Why..,because he is defending the lifestyle and positions of the people he was elected to represent? He may not do what you want, but he's following a policy that about half this country (at least the voting half--the other half can suck eggs if they can get off their dufs to go to the polls) support.

    Trouble with China? Oh, we're so sorry you're pilot was daft enough to smack into a big, slow moving, highly unmaneuverable craft. Go back to the other argument for the rest of my opinion on this.

    China & the US as the same. Hey...go there. I have. Not even freakin' close; that's why so many Chinese come here.

    And I think most of the people supporting capital punishment have point out it's NOT for 'crime in general'.

  7. #22
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    Thumbs up

    I have a hard time beleiving that executing a criminal costs more than housing him for the rest of his life! Some states still use the firing squad. It's cheap and if done right it's painless. Some crimes require the penality of death IMHO. There is an automatic appeal and review of all convictions that have a death sentence. AND I beleive that if the death sentence was carried out within 24 months it would act as a deterant to criminals in many crimes. California has over 200 inmates on death row going over an average of 7 years of appeals for one stupid reason or another.

  8. #23
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    Death by Firing Squad isn't as painless as one might think. In a "judicial" firing squad only one rifle has a bullet in the chamber the others are unloaded, so as to allow no one to know who the actual executioner is. That is why they have the officer in charge standing by with a pistol to administer a coup de grace in case for some reason the rifle round didn't do its job.

    There are only two "painless" methods I know of lethal injection, the convict falls asleep and never wakes up. Second, the guillotine, over before you know what is happening. It is said all the person feels is a quick sharp pain in the neck, then nothing. Though this rather difficult to prove.

    As to Fring Squads being the most economical, that's not quite true either, as the Nazis found out in war. They found it was more economical to use poison gas, rather then firing squads. Bullets may be cheap but over the course of a year you use alot of them, not to mention the extra pay for the squad itself.

    In the past all you had to do was find someone willing to take the post of executioner, pay him something for his trouble and that was the end of it. Now, the bureaucracy has to have its hand in it. So, I can see where a execution could cost more then a life sentence, but I still don't understand it.

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  9. #24
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    In favor. Particularly in the case of ANY hard-core, habitual offender. (Capital Crimes only, please! I jaywalk everyday and will continue to jaywalk everyday until the Law can bring me down! Nyah-ha-hah!)Simply put, habitual or compulsive behavior can never reliably be conditioned out. Public safety demands the permanent removal of such dangerous persons and incarceration is simply not humane or cost effective. I'm in favor of putting down rabid or dangerously conditioned dogs too. Even though I adore dogs as a species.
    As for possible innocents being executed. If it is a life and death matter, I say let's shoot the sucker up with sodium pentathol or whatever the interrogation drug of choice is these days and grill 'em CIA style. If they pass, they go free. If not...chop!
    Bottom line, I'm willing to execute an innocent or two if it means getting a couple of dozen serial killers out of circulation, forever. Cost effective, in a cold-blooded sort of way.

    Method: hmm. Gladiatorial games! With chainsaws! Now THAT'S "must see TV"!
    What? So I'm "compassion challenged", sue me!

  10. #25
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    Flamed? Ha! I'm going to be thrown into an antimatter reaction chamber for this one.

    I'm in favor of the death penalty. I feel life in prison without parole is as stupid as stupid gets. There's no rehabilitation (why bother if he's never going to get out), it's just warehousing. And, I might add, cruel and unusual punishment.

    So that leaves either giving every crime a chance at parole (blew up a building, huh? Killed a hundred kids, three pregnant women, and a nun? Okay, parole hearing's in thirty years) or to use the death penalty. Now, here comes the flame part. I think they should be organ harvested. Put them under anesthesia, disconnect the brain to ensure brain death, and take anything that a person on a waiting list can use. Liver, kidney, lung, heart, eye, tongue, bone marrow, blood, skin, whatever. Just run tests beforehand to ensure the health and make it all anonymous.

    We have a serious shortage of transplant organs and blood in this country, and to let it go to waste because the donor in question committed a quintuple homicide with a rusty icepick is ridiculous.

    Of course, this hinges on assured guilt, to which I agree... use truth serum, or something stronger. ONLY use it after the death penalty has been assigned, and make it voluntary. Let them know, however, that if they're innocent, this is the way to prove it.

    Heck, make truth serum a voluntary choice for any convicted criminal, as an appeals process. And have someone there to make sure that only the questions that pertain to the conviction get asked, of course.

    Execution -might- (and I'm skeptical) be more expensive than life in prisn, but is it more expensive than all of those new prisons we have to build to store these lifers?



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  11. #26
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    <font color="orange">As for possible innocents being executed. If it is a life and death matter, I say let's shoot the sucker up with sodium pentathol or whatever the interrogation drug of choice is these days and grill 'em CIA style. If they pass, they go free. If not...chop!</font>

    Are you sure you're not Cardassian Bob? So what if the defendant refuse to be subjected to such medicated interrogation? Do we automatically "off with his head"? I mean after all, if you are trying to avoid being interrogated in a particular case, then you are hiding something.

    This worse than the Salem Trial where you hook up the suspect with weight and throw her into the river. If she drown, she's innocent. If she floats, she's a witch, so hang her.

    (Of course, the real culprit turns out to be contaminated grain found in the bread they ate that cause the girls to be "cursed" with LSD-like sickness. Yeah, I watched that PBS special, "Secrets of the Dead.")

    We might as well amend the Constitution to remove the Fifth Amendment.

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    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

  12. #27
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    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Phantom:
    Second, the guillotine, over before you know what is happening. It is said all the person feels is a quick sharp pain in the neck, then nothing. Though this rather difficult to prove.
    </font>
    It has been semi-proven that the human severed head maintains a marginal amount of coherency for around 5-10 secs.

    Fast perhaps, but not humane!

    The IMHO easy/painless way would be a gradual loss of blood. You get very tired and go to sleep, utilizing this method for the death penalty could be difficult. Maybe a free donation to the Blood Bank? (Poor taste I know)

    As to the Death Penalty, Australia hasn't had it for many decades. If memory serves, the last fellow done in was around the 60's.

    I for one would like to see it back in certain circumstances like that 'bastard' that killed/maimed 33 people at Port Arthur, Tasmania ( a state of Australia).

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  13. #28
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    If murder is the deliberate taking of an innocent life, then what if I whack the guy I watched torture my brother to death? He killed my brother... I watched him do it. If I study him, stalk him, and then kill him, is it murder or not?

    [Note: This is a hypothetical situation; no one has tortured my brother to death.]

    If one or more of my family members and/or friends were killed, tortured, and/or raped, I would want to see the perpetrator(s) brought to justice, but I would NOT insist that they be executed by the state. The taking of a human life is either acceptable or it is not, regardless of who does it.

    Given all of this rhetoric and emotionally-charged debate, I am still so disturbed by some crimes that I am unsure what punishment could be severe enough to ensure that justice is served.

    For example, a case that I read about involved the rape of an eleven-year-old girl by four men who then killed her by stuffing her panties down her throat. If anyone deserves to die at the hands of the state, it's those four men. But will executing them a.) make their crime palatable, b.) provide adequate justice, and/or c.) bring back the victim?

    I think that a life in prison [no parole] with hard labor is far more fitting a punishment for capital crimes. The money earned should go towards financial compensation to the victim's family (if any).

    I think that capital criminals should have to perform manual labor for a minimum of 16 hours every day, should have to grow their own food, and should live without electricity.

    The other acceptable scenario (for me) is 24-hour isolation with constant multimedia propaganda [brainwashing] involving human contact with NO ONE... EVER.

    I also think that prisoners should be sent to foreign prisons. Turkey and Mexico have offered to house American prisoners for ~$5/day! Can you find a better deal than that? I think languishing for the remainder of one's life in a Turkish prison (see Midnight Express) would be appropriate for many murderers, rapists, and pedophiles.

    mactavish out.

  14. #29
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    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Phantom:
    Death by Firing Squad isn't as painless as one might think. In a "judicial" firing squad only one rifle has a bullet in the chamber the others are unloaded, so as to allow no one to know who the actual executioner is. That is why they have the officer in charge standing by with a pistol to administer a coup de grace in case for some reason the rifle round didn't do its job.

    There are only two "painless" methods I know of lethal injection, the convict falls asleep and never wakes up. Second, the guillotine, over before you know what is happening. It is said all the person feels is a quick sharp pain in the neck, then nothing. Though this rather difficult to prove.

    As to Fring Squads being the most economical, that's not quite true either, as the Nazis found out in war. They found it was more economical to use poison gas, rather then firing squads. Bullets may be cheap but over the course of a year you use alot of them, not to mention the extra pay for the squad itself.

    In the past all you had to do was find someone willing to take the post of executioner, pay him something for his trouble and that was the end of it. Now, the bureaucracy has to have its hand in it. So, I can see where a execution could cost more then a life sentence, but I still don't understand it.

    </font>
    Wrong. All rifles in the judicial firing squad have a round in the chamber.

    Guillotine as painless. Wrong. The brain can operate consciously for upwards of two minutes after decapitation. There were plenty of accounts during this period of people looking about in a rather shocked way, some tried to scream (which, of course, doesn't work), some would continue to cry until they expired.

    Life imprisonment as cheaper than execution. I guess people believe anything nowadays. Room and board (including medical care, guard salaries, etc.) for a prisoner, in the US, averages about $20,000/year. They get f**king cable TV, for the love of Pete! (When I was in Bosnia I didn't get TV. Nor did I have a warm cell, just a mud-floored, roach & rat infested tent.)

    Lethal injection costs under $100. Hanging cost you a length of rope. A .44 magnum round costs about $.50. The electric chair is much too expensive & NOT painless. Add the cleanup costs & burial, it's still less than a year in prison.

    "I'm in favor of the death penalty. I feel life in prison without parole is as stupid as stupid gets. There's no rehabilitation (why bother if he's never going to get out), it's just warehousing. And, I might add, cruel and unusual punishment."

    Here, here...I'd prefer death to imprisonment any day.

    [This message has been edited by qerlin (edited 07-24-2001).]

  15. #30
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    qerlin, I believe the cost of execution includes the endless appeals, legal costs, etc.

    However, wouldn't one have to agree all those appeals are needed?

    regardless, my view does not stand from cost but from my ethical views. Others of good conscience and intelligence may disagree.

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