anyone else here interested in guns, bushcratf, survival and SHTF preparedness?

[Cpt. Lundgren]

When it comes to equipment, I don't have anything that could be considered a full kit of survival gear. However, I have a few things I might lug along if leaving the comfort of home, or use if the usual comforts isn't available at home.

Compass, basic first aid kit, knife (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mora_knife), shell clothing (as insulation generally is better built in layers), A M/90 "Värmejacka" (an army coat) to keep warm while being still in cold weather. Small portable camping kitchen (alcohol burner) and an oil lamp gives for longer blackouts (which I haven't experienced since 2001). Using a tent indoors is a good way to conserve hear, but I don't think I would be able to put up my tent anywhere in my apartment, without having to move around some quite large and heavy furniture.

[WaveMan]

point taken Cpt.

I think the focus on survivalism is poignant for many Aussies as we live on a massive island that is sparsely populated, and it doesn't take long or much effort to 'go bush'. I hear of story's on the news of 'person lost in bush' all the time, and if they took the time to acquire some skills and have some basic kit with them then they would have an easier time when they invariably get lost. Plus as a hunter I often put myself in the situation of being out in the bush, so being prepared is just a sensible precaution.

As I mentioned (and you as well Cpt) it doesn't have to be a TEOTWAWKI event, localized disasters are far from being unprecedented. It only takes a hurricane (Katrina 2005 America), tsunami (Boxing day 2004 Indonesia), cyclone (1974 Australia), flood (too many to list, but 2015 England) or earthquake (too many to list, but 2011 Japan) to put a city into a disaster situation. Then there was the Carrington event of 1859, a CME that hit Earth and was one of the largest solar storms ever recorded. From the link "Studies have shown that a solar storm of this magnitude occurring today would likely cause widespread problems for modern civilization. The solar storm of 2012 was of similar magnitude, but it passed Earth's orbit without striking the planet."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859

Survivalist doctrine (and Governments in general as well) states the 'modern society is 72 hours [or 9 meals] from anarchy", as most people keep few supply's at home and once the shelves in the supermarkets run bare (shops usually have a high turn about and are resupplied almost daily) it doesn't take long before 'normal' people degenerate into anarchy.

[WaveMan]

after the collapse from a Canadian perspective



I will reiterate, Look at it this way, how does preparing for say the zombie apocalypse hurt your current situation? It doesn't change anything other then your level of preparedness. I bet all those in tornado alley have some sort of preps in place.....

[WaveMan]

Cpt the Mora is one of the quintessential bushcrafting knives and highly coveted, I love mine (the Robust and 2010 Bush Craft being my picks from my collection). As far as kits, I have too many to post pics of them all (I do have pics of them)....LoL

here is some of my Bushcraft tools
(featuring my Mora 2010 BC, the other knife is my Cold Steel Master Hunter san maiIII)

[WaveMan]

Notes on 'the zombie apocalypse', TTK mentioned this and I thought I would expand.
First off all (except the mentally disturbed) survivalists realize that zombies aren't real and are fictional.
It may seem strange (and disturbing) that many survivalists say they are preparing for the zombie apocalypse (or Zday), but there is a logical reason for this. Survivalists look at it this way, think of the worst possible scenario that could happen to modern society and the zombie apocalypse would be close to being at the top of the list, so if you are prepared for Zday then you can be assured you are pretty well prepared for most 'survival situations'. We all know that Zday and zombies are fantasy's, but replace 'Zday' with any other disaster and you are getting what we mean. It also allows us to talk about defensive (and offensive) use of weapons without getting us into trouble (remembering Australia doesn't have a constitutional guarantee of freedom of speech), because it is OK to say I would kill a 'zombie' as it is fictional.

[WaveMan]

as far as tying it to Trek, IMHO the average Federation citizen would last 3 days in a survival situation (how long it takes for them to die of thirst) as they are too reliant on technology and are too separated from their food source (even more so then 21st century man in reality). The whole replicator situation would further present problems as the average citizen would be utterly useless at processing game, or even plant identification etc. There would also be the aversion to killing animals and the lost art of cooking (as shown in some episodes), all adding up to problems for them surviving.

Star Fleet personnel undergo survival training and would definitely fair better (as show in multiple episodes), though some would obviously fair better then others (any one in the Security branch, any SF Marines would be better suited then any of the others) Again the reliance on technology would stymie some SF personnel, plus add the fact that SF personnel were shown to be very minimalist in what they carry to begin with. How many SF personnel were ever portrayed as carrying a knife? (I can only remember one, in the Siege of ar-558, and of coarse Worf who regularly carried a Mek'Leth)

[The Tatterdemalion King]

as far as tying it to Trek, IMHO the average Federation citizen would last 3 days in a survival situation (how long it takes for them to die of thirst)

Like Spiders Georg, the Medusans would probably screw with the stats enough that the Average Federation Citizen could go for millennia without a drink.

[WaveMan]

so you disagree with my assessment?

[WaveMan]

The rule of three's. This is another survivalist rule, the rule of three's

Survival Rule of 3 and Survival Priorities
For real survival situations it is better to remember and prioritize by the four levels of the Survival Rules of 3:

You can survive for 3 Minutes without air (oxygen) or in icy water
You can survive for 3 Hours without shelter in a harsh environment (unless in icy water)
You can survive for 3 Days without water (if sheltered from a harsh environment)
You can survive for 3 Weeks without food (if you have water and shelter)

The main point of the Rules of 3 that we have to concentrate on the most immediate problem first. I am mainly thinking about survival in an outdoor/wilderness context, but a survival situation is a survival situation no matter when or where it occurs and these rules/points/priorities are still applicable. There is no need to think about food if the main threat to your survival is hypothermia because your clothes are wet. And make no mistake, if you are shivering and can’t get dry and warm, you may not able to function after three hours. If you are alone, you may have only about three hours to live.

[WaveMan]

for those interested in reading about this subject one of the greatest resources one can buy is the SAS Survival Handbook by John Wiseman. Like me, read it from cover to cover. Then practice what you have learned from the book in the field.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_SAS_Survival_Handbook

[Cpt. Lundgren]

Not everyone in The Federation is a human, which change the situation a bit. Having a diverse group, and knowing how to utilize strengths would greatly help. That actually goes for an all human group as well. Don't send the person with poor eyesight on a gathering mission, unless it is an expert on where things grow.

I would assume each shuttle have a survival kit stored away (at the moment, I can only recall them in episodes of Enterprise). I also think there would be a lot of "outdoor" enthusiasts in Star Trek as well (at least Kirk and Bones dragged Spock out on some camping), even if some just experiences the "outdoor" on a holodeck. While some just enjoy the perfect condition settings, I think quite a few would visit a holodeck for the challenge. "Computer, give me an subarctic summer survival situation with basic survival equipment 4B."

Being on an alien planet would be even worse than ending up in a survival situation in a foreign country. What kind of things can you eat? What things are dangerous? Can you build a shelter on the ground, or should it be elevated somehow or dug in?

But yes, the average person would probably be quite clueless.

[WaveMan]

Very good point Cpt, concerning the diversity of the Federation. Yes, I was only seeing it from the human perspective. Though taking into account for different species, a Vulcan would be better suited to survival in a desert environment, an Andorian would be better suited to survival in an arctic environment etc.

The point of alien planets is also well made, though some similarities would be have to occur with Earth-like Class M planets.

Holodecks would definitely be a boon for training purposes, and many would use them to 'get back to nature', but sometimes one needs to actually experience it for real, with no "computer, end simulation" resets.

[WaveMan]

the latest Mora knife, a full tang version

[Cpt. Lundgren]

Bit funny, as we see a Mora knife as a cheap basic work tool here. Mine even have a 6 centimeter scale on the back of the blade, to not have to reach for something else for a simple measuring. I guess it ends up cheap, as most handy-workers use one.
It is pretty close to this one I guess (but older model, and slightly longer blade) http://www.clasohlson.com/se/Morakniv-Basic-511/40-9459

What I'm lacking on the one in the video there is a guard to minimize the risk of slipping and cutting oneself. My uncle have a few fingers that doesn't work, since he managed to hurt himself as a kid. Especially in a survival situation, when one might be unfocused due to lack of sleep and food, the risk of making mistakes tend to go up. But I really like the rubber/soft plastic grip, as it look comfortable to use for an extended period (like making a shelter) and in itself reduce the risk of slipping.

My first knife had quite an uncomfortable guard (or perhaps it was meant for kids, and I outgrew it), but newer ones tend to be quite good.

There was actually a survivalism discussion at lunch earlier this week, and I was completely innocent in starting it The topic was mainly generators, food storage, and home defense when people are starting to get desperate.

[WaveMan]

The Mora 511 is called the Craftline here in Australia, and I bought two for my sons as their first fixed blade knife. Mora's are excellent knives, and offer brilliant value for money.


As far as discussing survival, the only time I get to talk about it is on forums, my friends and family are (from what I can tell) sick of hearing anything to do with it from me...

As far as favorite knives, of my collection there are a few stand out, as a straight user the TOPS Power Eagle is with out equal (I have posted a pic of mine already) but for my overall favorite that would have to fall to the one knife I have coveted sense the '80's and finally got one from my 40th birthday,
Cold Steel Trail Master san maiIII