America's Loss

[KlingonZ]

The more this post continues the more weird it gets. Bush declars war on Mass. This may have been a joke but it is very sad.

The more evidence that is surfacing the more sick this becomes. The USA will do something that the rest of the world will feel. In one way or another!

This is going to be the single largest act of terrorism in history, and on American soil. Justice will be done. Am I mad? Damn straight. And everyone else should be.

Finally terrorism has hit home for me and it will take a united front to totally defeat it. The countries that support it are just as guilty. the perpitrators will be brought to justice!!

[Calcoran]

So maybe this is not the best thing to have them die for what their government did? Is this really what war means? Does war really have to be like it has been in WW2? WW1 had very few civilians die in comparison to WW2. Maybe with the current weapons and tactics, maybe it is not entirely necessary to have so many innocent people die. Maybe this is how we can show how much superior to those terrorists we are, who mostly strike innocent victims.
Well ... just hoping ...

By the way ... I've been reading references to "(whirl)wind" now and then ... could someone clarify? Is this akin to "tacking into the wind"?

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Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms)

[Captain Zymmer]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dave Biggins:
Hey guys, my boss's husband is one of those listed as missing from the Pentagon. Keep them in y'all's porayers, will you?</font>

Jeusus Dave,

Of course...please let us know as soon as there is any news.

All my prayers...



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Captain Zymmer
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Visit Star Trek:Lexington at;
http://www.usslexington.net
=-=-=-=-=-=

[Kaiddin]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Calcoran:
By the way ... I've been reading references to "(whirl)wind" now and then ... could someone clarify? Is this akin to "tacking into the wind"?
</font>

No it is something like "Those who sow the wind, prepare to reap the whirlwind".
Not sure the exact wording or who actually said it.

[Calcoran]

Oh ... I get it. Thanks Kaiddin .

[Captain Blake]

Aedh Rua, thank you for most eloquently stating my opinion.

Dave, good to hear you're ok. Prayers are on their way.
___

Anyone have any news on Boston? One of my co-workers said that one of her family said there was some sort of raid on a hotel. Darn fourth hand information.

Alex

[Cdr Scot II]

Just thought that you would like to know that Ireland has declared Friday as a day of National Mourning. All government buildings and operations will close, as will most retail and commercial businesses. There will be a memoral service in St Patrick's Cathedral for those who lost their lives in New York and Washington, to be attended by the Irish President and Government.

Similarly, in the UK a memorial service is to be held today in St Paul's Cathedral, attended by the Queen and the British Government. There will also be a special Changing of the Guard at Buckingham Palace which will be performed to the American National Anthem (which is a first, let me tell you).

I have heard that Ireland's lead may be followed by the rest of the European Union.

Please rest assured that you are not alone in this.

Regards

Martin

[Phantom]

Kaiddin,

On the other thread you posted;

In the City of God there will be a great thunder.
Two brothers torn apart by Chaos.
The third big war will begin when the big city is burning.

Do you happen to know what Century and Quatrain this is?

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In the Praetors Name!

[Evan van Eyk]

I thin this Iraque thing is a fake, cause I heard nothing on news, not here in gErmany, nor on CNN. So that was probably false, but who knows.


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"I am a great one for rushing in where angels fear to tread." - Cpt. Kirk, Star Trek VI


www.farrealms.de

[Michael Brinkhues]

Friday is a day of mourning in germany too. And today the german brokers in Frankfurt, on their own, stopped traiding totaly for five minutes as an act of mourning.

There are currently a "thousand heroes" at work to search for survivors. Hope they find some. Maybe another Lengede wonder[1] on a greater scale does happen.

I hope that in this cool heads prevail and the politicans do some thinking before leaping to both conclusions and decissions. Act to harsh and you play into the hands of the terrorists. After all:

• [li]It serves them if Muslims / Arabs become hunted by the public
  
  [li]It serves them if the US government clamps down too hard on internal security
  
  [li]It serves them if countries drop into isolation
  
  [li]It serves them if blind attacks hit the wrong target (as it has happened before in Sudan)

As hard as it may be, the USA needs to step back, see the whole picture and than use precise and legal means to deal with this. Get the proof that will stand in a courtroom either in the US or Europe[2] and after that, get the person(s) any way you like. The current "we think he did it" stuff is dangerous and may blind people of other possible groups that did it.[3]

The US reaction of "if you are not my friend, you are the enemy" is wrong and potentially dangerous. One can condem the action of the terrorists (civilians are never a legal or acceptable target[5]) yet still dislike the US. The is a difference between the state and it's inhabitants[4] I feel sorry for the dead but that does not mean I think the US can do no wrong.

As for people dancing in the street, well this are vocal minorities. They make good news[5] and pictures, so they show up. The grieving majority does not. The five pillars of Islam are: The statement of believe, The daily prayers, The travell to Mekka, The feasting and giving a tithe for the poor. It is basically an open and carring religion that only some fanatics but a bad light on. Again, fanatics make for pictures, silent prayers don't.[6]

Also remember what they say about freedom fighters and terrorists. It is always a matter of the side you are on. Ask my grandfather or my saxophon teacher about russian partisans or the french resistance and you hear "murderous bastards" and "terrorists". Not to compare those valiant persons with the monsters from 9/September but it is a think to remember if some arabian source "parties". From their point of view, those bastards are heros that struck against the "big foe"

A few years ago I saw "The Siege" and argued with friends that the ending was Hollywood bullshit. The situation is similar on a broader scale. Don't let it escalate as it happened in this piece of fiction. This time, the terrorist might play it smart.

Michael

Hope they rescue some more people. And do justice, not revenge.

--
[1] They found survivors of a major mining cave in when nobody did hope for it any more and got them out.

[2] Continental European courts have no jury so it's a bit harder to convince the judge since you have only facts, not emotions

[3] Germany had to situations last year, a bomb at a tram station that killed russian imigrants of jewish believes and a drowned child. Every one screamed "The Nazies did it". At least this time, they had no hand in it but at lot of investigation effort was directed there at first, ignoring other possibilities

[4] As seen in East germany. Or other "east block" states like Poland

[5] In germany we have some roleplayers that disguise as Orks etc. and do Life roleplaying. If you believe the press, they are the majority of roleplayer. In reality they are a tiny minority (Unless you consider the Bundeswehr Twilight:2000 live) But they generate pictures. Persons on a table rolling dice don't

[6] Remember that Christians and Jews are not! un-believers to the Muslim. We are Script-Possesers and the bible / tora are holy books for the Muslim. It's just that we did not make the final step in believes.

[Lancer]

Michael:
A really good post, well grounded in facts, which is just the thing we need right now IMHO. I second every word of it!

-Andreas

[spyone]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mactavish:
P.S. On a side note, I've heard that portions of the Arabic population of Dearborn, Michigan have been acting much like many of those in Palestine, cheering and celebrating the attack against the United States. Has anyone else seen or heard any such thing?</font>

I can't say I have. Mostly, I have heard of violence against Moslem churches, schools, and community centers, and Moslem people largely cowering in their homes for fear of becoming targets for their pissed-off neighbors.
Sad, really, and unworthy of us.
I mean, if the IRA had done this to us, would we attack Catholic Churches? If the people who did this were Muslims (as it appears) that does not change the fact that they do not speak for all Muslims, and many Muslims are also Americans and want to go kick their asses.

BTW: I'm comfortable with this having been Criminal Acts. If they were instead Acts Of War, none of the damage is covered by insurance. Even life insurance usually doesn't cover death due to Acts Of War.

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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.

[spyone]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Publius:
P.S. The plume of smoke from New York was apparently visible from the space station in orbit. I do not know how accurate this is, I heard it on the local news which means it is probably old news and just as likely to be incorrect.
</font>

Not only did I hear that report, I saw camcorder footage that proves it. (Yes, someone on the ISS took a camcorder.)



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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.

[Jonathan Talbot]

Folks, you are going to lovr this, I just got this from one of my other groups that I yap on line with, it is from Canada our Neighbor to the North...

This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.

America: The Good Neighbor.

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a
remarkable
editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian
television
commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as
printed in the Congressional Record:

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the
most
generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted
out of
the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars
and
forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today
paying
even the interest on its
remaining debts to the United States.

When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans
who
propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the
streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that
hurries in
to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by
tornadoes.
Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars!
into
discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing
about
the decadent, warmongering Americans.

I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the
erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any
other
country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the
Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly
them? Why
do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman
on the
moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You
talk
about German technocracy, and you get automobiles.

You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon -!
not
once, but several times - and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the
store
window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not
pursued
and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless
they are
breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa
at home
to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down
through
age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania
Railroad
and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old
caboose. Both
are still broke.

I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of
other
people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else
raced to
the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even
during
the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned
tired
of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing
with
their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their
nose at
the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope
Canada is
not one of those."

Stand proud, America!




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Jonathan Talbot.
Medical Officer
"First Away Team Mission... Beaming down to a Hostile Planet... Captain Kirk is leading the Away Team... I am wearing a red shirt... No Fear!!! Unknown Crew Member

[Jonathan Talbot]

NOw on to something scary and unfortunately Ironic. Osbien Ben Ladin ( Forgive the spelling) is a former Afganistan Freedom Fighter. These people as you know where trained by (Oh, yes you Guessed it, The USofA). We trained this mook to go out and Kill People and Break things in teh name of Freedom and Democracy.

Jeez, I saw this last nite on the News I flipped, we trained this vicious killer. WHat happen to the policy of when we are doen with them shoot'em. This is one of our own Attack Dog's gone Rabid, he has used the facilities we left to train him and his crew to kill Soviet's to know kill us...



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Jonathan Talbot.
Medical Officer
"First Away Team Mission... Beaming down to a Hostile Planet... Captain Kirk is leading the Away Team... I am wearing a red shirt... No Fear!!! Unknown Crew Member