Upgrading older vessels - what are the limits?

[Capt.Hunter]

Is there any limit to the amount of upgrading you could do to an older vessel (excepting the SU limit)? I'm trying to design a fast attack vessel (The Thor's Hammer-Class fast cruiser) which is one of the "Frankenstein ships" built during the Dominion War. It's based on a kit-bashed Micromachine model (The saucer of a Constellation attached to where the cockpit should be on a Star Wars Y-Wing fighter). As the saucer is part of an older ship (Constellations must have been around almost as long as Mirandas), what would be the maximum upgrade to systems like phasers? The original phasers must have been at most Type VII, so could they be replaced with Type IX units? How about warp drive and shields?

Any thoughts guys?

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"We are the Borg. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile."

"Mr.Kalor, give them a full spread of Quantum Torpedoes - let's see if they're right on that last point"
Captain Matt Hunter, USS Tempest NCC-81205.

[Old Soldier]

I would guess that the chief limiting factor would be space. My recommendation would be to limit the upgraded systems to within 10% or so of the SU cost of the original systems. That way, you can have your mental starfleet yard dogs figure out how they're gonna squeeze that new class 9-oscar warp core into that old 8-november cradle...

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"Any society which is willing to surrender essential liberties in order to gain security, shall in the end have neither."

[Fred]

Originally posted by Capt.Hunter:
I'm trying to design a fast attack vessel (The Thor's Hammer-Class fast cruiser)

Why not Mjölnir-class?

As for uprates, I agree with Steve. It's not just SU cost. I would imagine that uprating a phaser array from TOS to TNG would incur in changing several things. For example, more efficient transfer conduits - ones that could handle the extra energy. That would mean opening up the ship - the major rebuilding Steve mentioned.

By the way, could someone, maybe Steve, post some sort of chronology table for some of the systems. Something like:

2260-80 -- Type I through IV Phaser arrays
2280-2300 -- Type V through VIII Phaser arrays.

That would be a great boon to designing TOS ships and assessing uprates.




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"As long as you can laugh, you are not
defeated."

–- Jack Vance

[Dan Gurden]

Originally posted by Fred:
By the way, could someone, maybe Steve, post some sort of chronology table for some of the systems. Something like:

2260-80 -- Type I through IV Phaser arrays
2280-2300 -- Type V through VIII Phaser arrays.

Fred I think you might have missed something in the Phaser Linage...

The Type 1 Phaser is the small handheld unit used in various forms since Kirks Time.
The Type 2 is the Larger Phaser Pistol' Used heavily throughout the series...
The Type 3 is the standard Phaser rifle.
Typw 4 and 5 are larger, and fitted to shuttles (and there is a theory about a type 4 SSW)

Types 7 -12 are the big boys, with the Type 12s being planetary defence phasers only fitted to the Sovereign due to its increased power reserves...

Thats how I have always seen and used it... Although theres probably room for re-interpretation elsewhere (not mis-interpretation, I may have got the imaginary tech wrong myself?)


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Dan.

"A couple of thoughts froma random mind!"

[Steve Long]

I agree that there's some room to argue for your interpretation, Dan, but for SPACEDOCK purposes, I'm assuming that Type I phasers (for a starship) differ from Type 1 (personal). Otherwise, it gets hinky -- what happens when they introduce the Type 5 rifle?

As for a chronology, that's a superb idea -- for the SRM: TOS, where I've planned to put it all along. Until I design the TOS-era equipment, I can't really peg any given system to a given timeframe.

Steve Long

[Steve Long]

You've asked a good question -- one to which I don't really have a good answer off the top of my head (other than SUs, of course). I think that in order to provide an answer, and/or rules, for this sort of thing, I'm going to have to write the SRM: TOS Era, with all its rules for, and write-ups of, those early ships.

In the meantime, maybe a quick rule of thumb would go something like this: you can't upgrade any system more than two steps down any given table (i.e., the model two steps better), unless you engage in major rebuilding of the ship in question. Of course, "major rebuilding" is often meaningless in a game campaign....

Steve Long

[Capt.Hunter]

As for the name, I couldn't remember it and so chose the descriptive. I tried making the stats up last night, and as it turns out I haven't upgraded the phasers more than two classes (although the forward phasers do 190 damage - they're Type VII pulse phasers ). The nacelles are Type 6E8 with a Class 1 upgrade (speed 6.0/9.4/9.9) but the engineering section is from a different (and newer) ship anyway. This gives her a fairly high sustainable warp speed for hit and runs.

Now - torpedoes. Could a ship this old be adapted to fire quantum torps or should I stick to high-yield photons? Also, does anyone think Starfleet wouldn't use the Energy Sheathing tech? I ask because I reckon this ship should have it (allowing it to get close to the target without being seen).

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"We are the Borg. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile."

"Mr.Kalor, give them a full spread of Quantum Torpedoes - let's see if they're right on that last point"
Captain Matt Hunter, USS Tempest NCC-81205.

[Steve Long]

There's no need to adapt anything to fire ordinary q-torps -- just take the photon torpedo out of the launcher, put in a q, and press "Fire." As long as the ship can fire photons, it can fire quantums. Whether Starfleet would issue it quantums is, of course, a whole other matter...

IMO, Starfleet would not use energy sheaths on its ships.

Steve Long

[This message has been edited by Steve Long (edited 12-08-2000).]

[Capt.Hunter]

I didn't think so either. I can't remember - does SD include rules for the effects of silent running mode? If so the ship might use that whilst approaching the target. My vision of a fast attack vessel is that, whilst fast is the operative word, it should also be as stealthy as possible to avoid being intercepted (and thus slowed down) on the way to its objective.

------------------
"We are the Borg. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile."

"Mr.Kalor, give them a full spread of Quantum Torpedoes - let's see if they're right on that last point"
Captain Matt Hunter, USS Tempest NCC-81205.

[Steve Long]

does SD include rules for the effects of silent running mode?

Yes, page 42.

Steve Long