FAO: Steve Long. Can you have multiple warp engines?

[Swampy]

Steve

As the subject says: can you mount multiple warp engines, and more importantly get power from them all.

This question was prompted by Cmdr Powers use of a couple of engines in his Akira posting, which doesn't seem unreasonable given his canon info that the Akira has "twin Class 4G MARAs".

It does seem to be contra-indicated by the MVAM rules on p45 which state that the 3 warp engines on a MVAM vessel don't generate power seperately.

Thanks

Swampy

[Steve Long]

Theoretically, sure, you can have multiple warp cores on a ship, each generating Power. MVAM doesn't happen to work that way, because the cores link together, but that's not saying it can't be done. At least two species -- the Breen and the Borg -- frequently have multiple warp cores on ships.

However, that leaves us with two questions: Federation practice and game balance issues.

It is my belief (and certainly YMMV) that the Federation does not install multiple warp cores on its ships. For one thing, we've never seen or heard of anything like that. For another, multiple cores smacks of belligerence. There's only one reason a ship needs that much Power -- for shields and weapons. Other systems require very little Power, relatively speaking. I simply don't see that as being within the Federation ethos. My Akira-class Heavy Cruiser design, for example, has only one warp core. (That's not to say the Commander's wrong -- just that we have different design philosophies. )

Second, and perhaps more importantly, there are game balance considerations. A ship with multiple warp cores will probably have so much extra Power that it can use more weapons, or boost more systems, than other ships, giving it an "edge" that can unbalance the game. For this reason alone, most Narrators should forbid this type of design.

Of course, the game design issues depend partly on the type of warp core you install. Two Class 6/K might be no better than one Type 12/R; you're just paying a few extra SU for the benefit of having two cores (and thus minimizing your vulnerability to certain attacks). But that's a Narrator's call for sure.

The Commander's design provides a good example. Two Class 4/G cores isn't that bad, really. As a Narrator, I'd almost certainly allow it; it's about like one Class 9/O.

I'll be sure to discuss this issue in the next iteration of SPACEDOCK.

Steve Long

[This message has been edited by Steve Long (edited 12-09-2000).]

[ArsenicMan]

The only canon ship that I know of with a second warp core is the Intrepid-class - and on that, the secondary one is essentially a spare-parts repository.

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This is our last, best hope for peace? We are so screwed.

[Steve Long]

The Intrepid's second warp core is very much a "spare parts" thing. It's not set up to generate Power; it's on board in case the other one gets messed up.

The ST:TM article on the Breen battle cruiser makes it clear that those ships have two warp engines. That's not entirely "canon," of course, but it's good enough for my purposes.

I proceed on the (entirely reasonable! )assumption that any ship as big as a Borg Cube has to have multiple warp cores for Power purposes -- no way could a single core provide enough Power to keep so massive a ship, with so many weapons, running. Besides, the Borg are at 30 on the Weibrand Scale, they can do technological stuff the Federation can only dream of.

Steve Long

[Sundell]

Originally posted by Steve Long:
The Intrepid's second warp core is very much a "spare parts" thing. It's not set up to generate Power; it's on board in case the other one gets messed up.

The ST:TM article on the Breen battle cruiser makes it clear that those ships have two warp engines. That's not entirely "canon," of course, but it's good enough for my purposes.

I proceed on the (entirely reasonable! )assumption that any ship as big as a Borg Cube has to have multiple warp cores for Power purposes -- no way could a single core provide enough Power to keep so massive a ship, with so many weapons, running. Besides, the Borg are at 30 on the Weibrand Scale, they can do technological stuff the Federation can only dream of.

Steve Long

And from the info i have read the Negh'Var class also has 2 M/AM engines. But that falls into the Klingon way of warfare, weapons shields more weapons.

[Steve Long]

And from the info i have read the Negh'Var class also has 2 M/AM engines.

I knew I was forgetting one -- thanx, Bill! The DS9 Tech Manual specifically states that the Negh'Var has two warp cores, and I certainly intend to give it that many in my SD version of it.

Steve Long

[Cmdr Powers]

I've seen a couple of Akira cutaways that indicate just one warp core, but they are almost certainly non-canon. One of them has the warp core in the center of the Primary Hull, just in front of the bridge, but there is no external justification for that- no external ejection port or servicing port. I did have to uprate my warp cores to 5H's, but that keeps them within the bounds of reasonableness as per Steve above.

My justification for two warp cores comes from the unique layout of the Akira with its twin boom/catamaran hulls. On top of each of these booms is a large hatch that looks like it swings up. The only reason I can find for the configuration of these hatches is as the ejection ports for MARA's. The EPS conduits run from each core back up the booms to the pylons. From there the conduits go to the warp nacelles and to the weapon module between the booms. There is an additional conduit that runs between the two MARA's at about deck 5 or 6 so that one MARA can run the whole ship in an emergency. That additional conduit forms the basis for Main Engineering in the Primary Hull.

There are a couple of large circular sections on the bottom of the Primary Hull that might have been lower ejection ports, but they do not line up with the booms properly. They are more likely the loading hatches for anti-matter canisters to be stored on deck 9 or 10.

Yup, I've given this some thought guys. All part of our local project to do some Akira deckplans.

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"The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank" -Montgomery Scott

[This message has been edited by Cmdr Powers (edited 12-09-2000).]

[Korga]

However: there is one peticular Federation starship that would most likely have 3 warp drives and that my Friends would be the Prometheus

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Korga =/\=

I'm Drunk of Borg Resistance is Floortile.

[Steve Long]

Korga, the Prometheus's "three" warp cores link up to form one big core when the ship's in one piece. That's pretty clearly established in articles about the ship.

By the way, on a completely different note, what the heck does the "FAO" in the header of this thread stand for?

Steve Long

[Korga]

help me out here :
Ok the Prometheus when separated have 3 parts of the warp core correct?...so therefore when separated it should not be able to go into warp... you hafta have a warp core first before you can go to warp right? in the show that I watched again just Now the ship was at warp then separated....but it cant sustain warp speed without a warp core...as you said steve the 3 link up to form one big core... so now what?

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Korga =/\=

I'm Drunk of Borg Resistance is Floortile.

[billy135]

The Prometheus has three seperate warp cores. ST TM plainly shows each section has warp capibilities, even the saucer section has retractable nacelles. The misunderstanding is that the Prometheus is one vessel. It isn't, It is three that can operate independant of each other. Every thing in the Prometheus is tripled, 3 Bridges, 3 Engine rooms, 3 Sickbays, ect...
However when the ships are linked, power, lifesupport, computer, turbolifts, everything is linked and operates in unison.
I bet the vessel does have an interisting command structure though.

[Korga]

Thats what I thought.. Each of the Prometheus's 3 parts have engines and nacelles with that i concluded that all 3 sections must have a warp core least those are my thoughts

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Korga =/\=

I'm Drunk of Borg Resistance is Floortile.

[Dan Gurden]

Originally posted by Steve Long:
By the way, on a completely different note, what the heck does the "FAO" in the header of this thread stand for?
Steve Long

For the Attention Of... FAO... I use it in the office all the time...

I have to say that I doubt the Promethius has an 'interesting' command structure, or that everything is tripled...

The episode seems to make it clear that the other two sections are automated and slaved to the primary bridge.
Although I wouldn't be surprised to find 1 bridge and 2 battle bridges.

3 engine rooms, I can agree with, but I am not sure about the core splitting 3 ways... It makes more sense to me that 1 hull has a powerful engine, and the other 2 contain one less powerful system each that comes online when they split up...



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Dan.

"A couple of thoughts froma random mind!"

[Old Soldier]

I realize that I'm stepping into this a bit late, but I have to agree with Steve on the "starfleet uses only a single warp core" thing. Here's why.

In most of the shows where we've seen comparisons in technology, it has been obvious that Starfleet has a higher emphasis on safety than the other races do. Case in point: Chief O'Brian's haveing removed part of the computer system in DS9 OPPS to make room for the "redundant backup lifesupport system" (i.e., a second backup).

As an engineer, when I look at the warp cores in the shows (and yes, I know it's just fiction), I have to realize just how much safety equipment must be in place to keep the thing functioning without toasting the crew. Given that SF tends to have multiple safety systems and backups for the backups I'm, inclined to think that multiple warp cores would become impractical from a purely spatial point of view.

The Klingons don't give a broken dunsel about safety, and the Breen are probably of the same bent. IMHO, starfleet doesn't use multiple warp cores on most of their ships not as a matter of doctrine, but because it's just easier to install a single LARGE core (with all of its attendant safety systems), than several smaller ones.

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"Any society which is willing to surrender essential liberties in order to gain security, shall in the end have neither."

[SIR SIG]

Hear, hear Old Soldier, I'd be of that philosophy too. If there is a second core then its purely a backup when the primary fails and in that case the safety features transfer over unless damaged.
As to Prometheus, its got 6 nacelles. 2 little ones either side of the upper (saucer) section that retract. Since the other 2 sections have identical nacelles then i would say 2 med cores and 1 little one. When joined they could share the plasma between them.

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SIR SIG a Aussie TREK Narrator