Drama die

[C5]

I see your point.
I forgot to say that I am also a newbie when it comes to LUGTrek, and now I realise that I may have over-estimated the number of rolls on a game session (I should soon find out).

Anyway - damn statistics!!!

[This message has been edited by C5 (edited 08-28-2001).]

[Paul]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by C5:
and now I realise that I may have over-estimated the number of rolls on a game session (I should soon find out).</font>

That's easy to do.

My players make rolls, sure - but probably only around a dozen (give or take) per game session between them.

The game concept is such that, for most ordinary situations, the PCs don't need to roll to suceed at a task. You should only be getting them to roll in pressure and/or critical circumstances - it saves time, and makes it more dramatic.

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"...and more controversial than Oolon Colluphid's trilogy of philosophical blockbusters Where God went Wrong, Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes, and Who is this God Person Anyway?"
- The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams (dec.)

[C5]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Don:
I don't follow you here -- a critical failure (all 1s) is always a possibility, regardless of your skill rating. How do you figure this? Is this your own house rule or something?
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Sorry to be that unclear (I'm rather new to forums, and sometimes also my brain remembers that english is not my mother language - just give me time ).

I was referring to the house rule of removing the higher die when the drama die rolls 1 - and nothing else (if all dice roll 1s, the result will be 0 or 1 depending on how many die you roll). With a skill at 4, the lowest score you can possibly get is 4 or 5 - and since, with that house rule, a critical failure only happens when your result is lower than your difficulty minus 6, it won't happen to you for moderate tests.

I found this rule interesting since my friends and I played WEG:SW a lot, and have developped a knack to get critical failures at dramatic times - and sometimes when a character was performing a rather easy task in an area he was rather good at (=lots of dice). Hence our hatred toward the Cursed Die Result No Matter How Expert You Are.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Call me strange, but I use the rules in the book. Critical failures only happen if all 1s come up--and in recent memory (last 2 years) that's only happened once.
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I'm surprised - do your players roll frequently? For a character with 2 in an attribute, an all 1s result happens statistically 1 time out of 36, wich is not that rare - or my friends and I are really unlucky .


[This message has been edited by C5 (edited 08-28-2001).]

[C5]

This game is definitively cool . It's not that I don't like throwing a handful of dice every 5 minutes, but sometimes...
I'll have to shake my players a bit so we can start the sooner. And if they miss the die, they can go to the holodeck any time they want ("I promise, the safeties won't go off... this time" )
See you on another newbie topic!

[This message has been edited by C5 (edited 08-29-2001).]

[reimero]

The group I'm with absolutely loves rolling dice: the more, the merrier (is that thunder or are you rolling damage?) With a group like that, you can count on 20-30 rolls in a session. (e.g. "I run down the hall." "Roll it." "Damn! Critical miss!" "Okay, as you're rounding a corner, you smack into that cute ensign you've been admiring and you twist your ankle. Roll your first aid.")

I understand the reasoning that anyone should be able to accomplish the mundane, that's fine, but if you're players like dice, then give them dice!

[This message has been edited by reimero (edited 09-06-2001).]

[Lt B.B.B]

Ok this is the way my narrator do it. when you have a 1 on your drama dice and the total of your skill plus your better dice is less then 6 of the challange. Something goes bad not a big thing.Thatis a dramatic failure. But if you roll all 1 that is bad and something RREEAALLYY BAD happend. That's a catastrofic failure.

[sidume]

I use the die removal method also.

If you get a 1 on you drama die, you don't get to count whatever your highest die is. When a character has only a 2 in the stat that make failure quite possible. I only make the roll a "fumble" if a) it is critical (all 1's), or the target missed the skill roll by at least 5.

If Lt. Rhine is making and engineering (or other INT based) skill check then I know that won't be much problem because he's rolling 5 dice. Even if you gets a 1 on the drama die there is a good chance he will succeed in standard tasks.

Now if he is piloting a workbee, (until recently an unskilled roll), then he better be prepared to burn some courage points because he's only rolling 2 dice for that skill.

Now if they get a 6 on the drama die I let them add the next highest die as well . . .

[Dan Gurden]

This is my particular house rule regarding the Drama Dice.

Established rules;
The Drama Die comes up 6, roll again, add to the total as your established roll.

ALL the Dice come up 1's result in a catastrophic failure. Boom, worst possible result, up to and including an opposite effect...

Those are the established 'by-the-book' rules, but I felt there was inequality in the setup, it seems far easier to roll a 6 on 1 specific die than for ALL the dice to come up 1's. Which has been proven in game.

So I adopted a rule from WEG's Star Wars, which was dubbed the 'shit happens' rule.

If the Drama Die rolls a 1 then a minor negative effect occurs. Success over the current task depends on the rest of the Die. But the negative effect may make future plans alter.

For Example;
A character leaps across a rocky pit. Rolling high enough to make the jump, but the Drama Die comes up 1, so as GM I decide whether he knocked the far edge, loosening some stones and making further jumps across slightly more difficult... Or whether his Phaser slipped from its holster smashing against the rocks below, leaving our hero unarmed...

Perhaps the player has successfully navigated an asteroid field, however the 1 on the drama die might reveal tha in fact rather than emerging totally unscathed, the ship recieved minor damage leaving it without communications.

To counter this, another house rule was required, to balance things. This one I called;
FATE SMILES

Should ALL the dice roll a 6, as ref I feel it is such a rare occurance (although easier with fewer dice in your pool ), that it deserves special attention.

Thus, when every dice rolls a 6 the character gets the following.

- An automatic success.
- A Fate point awarded.
- Luck renown (if you use it), equal to the number of witnesses present.



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DanG.

"Hi, I'm Commander Troy McClure, you might remember me from other academy training holo-simulations as, Abandon Ship, the quickest way out, and I sense danger, 101 things you dont need a Betazoid to know..."

http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk

[Captain Zymmer]

Okay so the rules say if the Drama Die comes up a 6 re-roll it and add the result.

I have been using the add thenext highest die rule. Now where did this come from? I thought (for some reason) it was the rule.

It was how the narrator who ran the first game I played in used it.

Anyone can think where this idea came from?

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Captain Zymmer
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Visit Star Trek:Lexington at;
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[Captain Blake]

The "re-roll and add if you get a 6 on the drama die" rule comes from Shadowrun. Of cource, in Shadowrun, you get to re-roll and add on any 6, not just one of them.

AFAIR, the Icon way of doing it is to take the highest non-drama die and add it to the total.

That way you don't have to roll more dice.

I like the Icon's "Under by more than 6 is a critical failure" that isn't dice dependent. To me, having a "you roll a one on the drama die, so you're screwed in some way" doesn't seem quite in the spirit of Trek.

After all, everyone would have the exact same chance of a "critical failure" (rolled a 1) as a "add another die" (rolled a 6)--1 on a d6.

Unless you make the rule "Got a 6 on the Drama die, automatic success" anything resembling "Got a 1, miserable failure" seems asymetric to me. Not to menstion overly brutal to anyone trying to attempt an action.

Roll a 1 subtract the highest die, and roll a 6, add the highest die has symmetry.

But, really, how often in the Genre does a Main Character miserably fail.

Not often. A lot less often than "Roll a 1, subtract highest die" would seem to make it. IMO, the as written rules of Icon seem to fit the genre pretty well.

Alex

[C5]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Captain Blake:
I like the Icon's "Under by more than 6 is a critical failure" that isn't dice dependent. To me, having a "you roll a one on the drama die, so you're screwed in some way" doesn't seem quite in the spirit of Trek.

After all, everyone would have the exact same chance of a "critical failure" (rolled a 1) as a "add another die" (rolled a 6)--1 on a d6.

Unless you make the rule "Got a 6 on the Drama die, automatic success" anything resembling "Got a 1, miserable failure" seems asymetric to me. Not to menstion overly brutal to anyone trying to attempt an action.
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That was my exactly point. Glad to see some experienced players think the same as the newbie I am.

[sidume]

I think it's fair, but it really encourages players to have stat higher than 2. At least for Intellect anyway, since in my game that's probably 60% of the rolls.

Though if I say make a Coordination or Fitness roll, you better make it . . .

[IanKevinMcDonald]

Originally posted by reimero
You've hit on what I believe to be one of the shortcomings of the icon system. There's a one in six chance of being able to add more than you normally should to your roll, and a one in six chance of the Narrator deciding something bad happens.

I agree. Particularly as characters have a decent chance of a 5 or a 6 normally, PCs tend to be on either Good form or Legendary form - they rarely fall between the two.

My house rule is to divorce the drama die from the die pool. In other words, the drama die's only function is to tell you whether to count your best die or your best two dice. It is in addition to the pool of as many dice as their are levels in your attribute, not within the pool.

This makes drama dice less dramatic, and sometimes less important. Truth in advertising: the players don't like this.

I balance this by making courage points more important - when spent before rolling, they make the top two dice count, just as if the drama die had rolled a 6. It seems to me that courage/determination/what courage points represent should be more important than random luck. A courage point and a six on the drama die together result in the top three dice being added together.

With respect to the other extreme, I simply ignore ones on the drama die. I think the rules suggest that anyway.