The game from “Brain of Morbius” is called Mindbending. The Doctor described it as Time Lord wrestling. They definitely emphasized the “power of the mind” when describing it. Maybe it should be an Intellect based roll?
The Master, the Doctor, and the Rani are all very unusual Time Lords. They obviously have high wills but then so did Hitler, Churchill.
The battle between Goth and the Doctor was determined by the amount of “Atron Energy” the two of them had. Atron energy is also used to power TARDISes, which are telepathic. The novels have stated several times that Atron energy is a measure of temporal/psionic ability.
Also in “The Five Doctors” Borusa says that the Coronet of Rassilon emphasizes “My will.” He used it to control the fifth Doctor.
I suppose these could be taken as indication of a willpower bonus. I assumed that these “will” and “power of the mind” references were based on psionic powers. But I could be wrong.
Bytus said:
“As for Reaction +1, in the Fourth Doctor's first story 'Robot,' didn't he type up a REALLY quick message on the typewriter?”
I completely forgot about that! But wouldn’t typing be a dexterity-based thing? Maybe they should have a +1 in both reaction and dexterity. Or maybe the “my reflexes are hundred times faster” thing really refers to dexterity. (the scriptwriters don’t tend to split hair the way gamers do)
Bytus said:
“…and removing Perception +1.”
The novels support the +1 Perception. The Doctor has stated that Gallifreyan hearing, sight, and smell is better then humans.
So does the movie (with all that half-human stuff) fit with your personal cannon?
There’s nothing wrong with your location I just thought you’d want to know about the other numbers that are out there. As a side note the novels can’t agree on weather Gallifrey is in the center of the Galaxy or the edge.
On Pay TV here, they are playing all of the complete Doctor Who stories.
You lucky, lucky human! They haven’t shown it here since 1988.
Bytus said:
“But at least we have you to fix all that.”
Thank you very much!
Bytus said:
“I have tried to stay as close to cannon as I can.”
Whose cannon? BBC has no concept of cannon. They just don’t care. They’ve made the claim that the new Dr Who Audio Dramas are “official” - whatever that means. The only place you’ll find people who care about continuity in Doctor Who is among the fans and the writers of the novels. The novelists (most of them anyway) care much more about consistency then the TV producers ever did. That's what happens when the Fans get to control the series. Continuity becomes important.
And that’s why the novels are part of my personal cannon. They got the Dr. Who license but it’s “for the fans, by the fans.”
Bytus said:
“Some people feel very strongly about the whole cannon issue…”
That’s very true. It you want to appeal to the broadest range of Who fans then don’t spend too much time talking about the novel. On the other hand you might not want to contradict them either. Sort of a tight rope.
That’s why my website uses color-coding. Red for the TV series, Orange for the Novels and Audio Dramas, Green for the FASA RPG and so on. Readers can pick and chose what they want to read based on what fits in there own personal cannon.
Bytus said:
“So if I do incorporate noncannon things, then I'll put a footnote to indicate so. How does that sound?”
Or use different colored text. Anyway here are the things you might need to footnote from your first piece.
“Organ Redundancy +2”
According to the TV series they have 2 hearts. According to the novels they have multiples of almost all organs.
The TV series has never made it clear weather all Gallifreyans are Time Lords or not. This is a fan belief that didn’t become “official” until the novels.
Bytus said
“Time Lord history has spanned millions of years… ”
The duration of Time Lord history is somewhat vague…
12,000,000 years - The Image of Fendahl
10,000,000 years – Trial of a Time Lord
2,000,000 years – The Deadly Assassin
100,000 years – The Underworld
“many” thousands of years – The Three Doctors
Lance Parkin (author of A History of the Universe) uses the 2,000,000 years number consistently in his novel “The Infinity Doctors.” Since Parkin is the biggest continuity hound I know I uses his number in my website.
Bytus said:
“Later, Rassilon brought the black hole to Gallifrey…”
I don’t think there’s any direct TV evidence that the black hole Omega created was the same one captured by Rassilon. This is however supported by the novel “The Infinity Doctors”
Anyway hope this helps.
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Just remember, even though it’s a vacuum,
In space no one can hear you Clean.
-J.T.
I’d call the first template Generic Time Lord, just to differentiate from the rest.
Bytus said:
“Time Lord Renegade...Code of Honor (Laws of Time) –4”
Why would a renegade have a Code of Honor to the laws of time? The Master tried to change established history in “The King’s Demons” and he’s a Renegade?
Bytus said:
“Time Lord Technician...
The Time Lords require specialized and innovative technicians, not only to create new technologies…”
In “The Deadly Assassin” and to a lesser extent “The Invasion of Time” there is the strong implication that Gallifreyan technological development is at a virtual standstill.
On the other hand the Doctor’s Type 40 TARDIS is considered outdated and obsolete. The Time Ring from “Genesis of the Daleks” is also a “new” invention.
The Novels are just as vague on this topic.
Looks pretty good darn good. If you wanted to be really detailed then you could use Romana’s states from the FASA RPG and the Time Lord RPG to get a baseline look at a Time Lord Graduate. On the other hand no one thinks that FASA or Time Lord is cannon.
As a side note, I’m still planning to make states for various pieces of Gallifreyan equipment when I get time.
------------------
Just remember, even though it’s a vacuum,
In space no one can hear you Clean.
-J.T.
The Templates and Overlays that I've put together, were indeed done in a hurry. So yes they certainly will contain some errors. In fact I was just reading them and found a few more. This is why you're so important, not that I'm using you ... hummm, I guess I am.
Anyway, when are you going to post your Templates and Overlays?
You're right with the Renegade Time Lord Overlay, Code of Honor should be taken away ... that means I'll have to readjust all the points again.
Use away!
I love Doctor Who and could talk about it all week long.
Though if you could stick a little something to the effect of “Thanks to JT for error continuity advice” in the completed “document” it would be nice.
Sorry I completely forgot to answer the main question.
I did post my Gallifreyan Template on 03-14-2001 in this thread. Though there are some minor changes I would make. The Time Lord advantages should be directly connected with a Time Lord overlay and there should probably be a +1 to dexterity.
You’ll notice that the advantages of my template push the character WAY over the traditional number of starting points. This seems reasonable to be for two reasons. First these advantages accurately represent what a Gallifreyan can do. Second (according to the novels) they’ve been genetically engineered and (according to the novel writer guide) have nanites to help them regenerate. This means that we can ignore any ideas about “all species templates are created/evolved equal.” Would the template for a genetic superman (like Kahn) be built on the same number of points at the template for a normal human?
I don’t have any Time Lord overlays. I think yours look fine so I doubt if I’ll bother making my own. I do plan to write up states for Gallifrey equipment at some point.
As for the Doctor Who RPG stuff on my site I’m thinking of posting my Time Lord character for the Doctor Who GURPS campaign I’m playing. When printed at 10-pt font his background was about 10 pages. I will probably put my Gallifrey Template (ICON version) up with the Gallifreyan Advantages/Disadvantages (ICON version) up too. I’m not sure when I’ll get to this though.
As for the Star Trek stuff on the website you’ll have to be patient. I hope to have it there in a month or two (though I’ve been saying that for almost a year now). It will be few pages of text on how the economy of the UFP affects the average man. Something more detailed than what LUG or Paramount has given us. It will also have a personal equipment list that will include every piece of personal equipment (that LUG gave states for) in all the LUG trek books. The list will include lots of gadgets from the TV series too. It will give the item name of the device, the replication cost, the manufacturing cost, the legality code, and the book and page number where detailed info can be found about this device. The Ultimate Big Bad Equipment List for Star Trek RPGing.
------------------
Just remember, even though it’s a vacuum,
In space no one can hear you Clean.
-J.T.
Great work guys! I've been out of things for a bit, but I'm back. It's great to see all the new Doctor Who ICON stats.
I particularly like the social advantages listed to differentiate gallifreyans from Time Lords. I thought about that briefly during the original character creation, but I realized that those things would only extremely rarely come into play during the game because they would not be on Gallifrey. So, the characters in my game do not have to pay points for social advantages that will never come into play.
For example, if I was playing Fantasy ICON, one would have to pay points for noble rank. But in ICON Doctor Who, the late 14th century Italian (minor) nobleman does not have to pay points for this. If I was playing Star Trek, an admiral would have to pay points for their rank. But in ICON Doctor Who, an Earth Empire Admiral would not. This is similar to the GURPS meta-rule... if an advantage or disadvantage will never come up in your campaign, it counts for no points.
I still like seeing the new advantages and disadvantages! They look well thought out. And if you had a Gallifrey-centered campaign, they would be necessary.
Regarding point cost... the argument has been made that as genetically altered beings, typical Gallifreyans should have more points. But this doesn't fit with what we've seen on the show. Sure, the Doctor and the Master are amazingly competent beings. But all the other Gallifreyans we've seen have spanned the whole spectrum of competence. We've had academic fools, incompetent technicians, overbureucratic judges. We've also had compent and coolheaded gallifreans like Andred, reasonable if impatient ones like the judge in "Trial of a Timlelord", cunning ones like Borusa. Drax seemed competent, if quirky (much like the Doctor, who has his share of Quirks). Azramael (spelling wrong, the guy whose planet was concured by the slugs in "Twin Dillemna") was competent enough to set up a well-runing society, but not as competent as the Doctor.
In short, Gallifreyans have been depicted on the show as having the same highs and lows of other races.
As for what point values the characters should have access to, I recommend taking some pointers from GURPS: it depends on how you want the feel of your campaign to be. For example, for a feel of "Normal humans thrust into the amazing Whoniverse" with characters like the schoolteachers Ian and Barbra, 100 points is probably right. For a feel of "highly skilled beings taking the initiative" - secret agents, spacefleet officers, Renissance inventors, and "ordinary" galiifreyans, I would suggest the Star Trek standard 125 points. They are people who take the fight to the enemy but are still struggling valiantly a little out of their depth, like the Brigadeer. For a touch of the cinematic feel, people who can match wits with the evils of the universe on an almost equal footing, such as junior Time Lords, or an exceptional person like Lytton, use 150 points.
My campaign is at the 150 point level. You still have to use economy to build a junior Time Lord. Companions are still believable but can take the iniative, and get things done. They have enough breathing room to not have to be too specialized.
Diamond said:
“Great work guys! I've been out of things for a bit, but I'm back.”
I was wondering where you’d gotten to.
Diamond said:
“I particularly like the social advantages listed to differentiate gallifreyans from Time Lords. I thought about that briefly during the original character creation, but I realized that those things would only extremely rarely come into play during the game because they would not be on Gallifrey. So, the characters in my game do not have to pay points for social advantages that will never come into play.”
The Time Lords have a fairly significant reputation thought time and space. The Daleks, Cyberman and several friendly races know of them (see the “Two Doctors”). Heck, given the UNIT thing the United Nations might know about them.
It seems that Time Lord status might be worth at least a point. (or maybe it would be a disadvantage, even the friendly races don’t seem to like them much)
Diamond said:
“Regarding point cost... the argument has been made that as genetically altered beings, typical Gallifreyans should have more points. But this doesn't fit with what we've seen on the show. Sure, the Doctor and the Master are amazingly competent beings. But all the other Gallifreyans we've seen have spanned the whole spectrum of competence. We've had academic fools, incompetent technicians, overbureucratic judges . . . In short, Gallifreyans have been depicted on the show as having the same highs and lows of other races.”
I believe their ADVANTAGES should be able to go over “normal” limits. Their SKILLS and ATTRIBUTES (the major determiners of “competence”) should be at normal levels.
Also some of those Disadvantages will also have very big effect on game play (i.e. Agoraphobia: the fear of being outside!)
------------------
Just remember, even though it’s a vacuum,
In space no one can hear you Clean.
-J.T.
Now that I've had a chance to look more at what you have done, I have a few thoughts/questions. Namely:
(from Bytus's Gallifreyan template)
Organ Redundancy +2
Rapid Healing +1
Regeneration +3
I really like your use of the organ redundancy advantage. It solves a lot of problems elegantly. I prefer using existing ICON system mechanics than thinking up a new advantage. It also merges the novel info, and it has actual game effects (an extra level of damage if I recall the DS9 core book) rather than just, "uh, he has two hearts." Kudos.
Help out my memory... are there examples of Rapid healing (outside of regeneration)? Granted, the Doctor was always ready to jump up and run to the next adventure before his companions were ready, but I always attributed that to a good fitness (vitality) stat.
I respectfully suggest that your cost for regenerations is too low. I know you must have been hard-pressed to fit everything into 50 points (which is a very laudable goal, to make it fit with other racial templates). Regneration is an amazingly potent advantage, although this would depend on campaign style. I suppose if one was running a Gallifrey-based campaign where everyone had stazers, it would be different. On the other hand, maybe my cost it too high... after all, it's only occurred once in my campaign. But I want to squash munchkinism, as if any advantage can be abused that's it. Hrm, hrm.
Since it's quite well established that the ordinary non-adventuring Gallifreyan has never been outside, taking a hint from JT and having the package include Agoraphobia could help make Regenerations more costly and have the template still come out to 50DP.
Regarding the mental combat, or test of wills between Doctor/Morbius, the two Doctors/Omega, and the Doctor/Goth:
My enterpretation of that was that it was a psionic struggle, and thus the stat in question would be Psi and not will. Of course, when defending from psi attack, the will stat can sometimes be substituted for the Psi score, as described in the core book under the Mind Shield skill.
OK, here's what I worked on last night: Venusian Akido writeup!
Block: Establishes difficulty # for unarmed combat hand to hand attacks.
Throw: Difficulty 8, dmg 1+1d6, target prone (exactly as per Akido, Player's Handbook p74)
Disarm: Difficulty 9, acts precisely loke the same maneuver in Starfleet Martial Arts (Star Trek Core book, p. 112)
Recover: Difficulty 8. User tumbles and comes up to a standing position as an instantaneous action if ever knocked prone. Note that this can also be done by an Acrobatics (breakfall) check with difficulty 4, as described in the Player's Handbook.
Advanced Maneuvers:
Venusian NervePinch, Difficulty 10 damage [3+2d6] stun. Strength does not add to the damage done. This has the same game effects as the Vulcan Nerve Pinch, but a much higher target number. Because of the difficulty in hitting both sides of the neck at the same time, this maneuver is best done to finish off a previously-immobilized opponent.
Requirements: Dodge 2 (same as for Akido, as listed in the Player's Handbook)
Note: The doctor may well have spent 3exp to learn an special technique lowering the difficulty of the Throw attack to 7.
What did the chest paralyzig maneuver do? I can't remember it. Please remind me what happened when it was used on the show.
Diamond said:
“Help out my memory... are there examples of Rapid healing (outside of regeneration)? Granted, the Doctor was always ready to jump up and run to the next adventure before his companions were ready, but I always attributed that to a good fitness (vitality) stat.”
The most obvious is the Healing Trance that he goes into in “Planet of the Daleks.” After being shot by some sort of ray gun (I don’t know the specifics) He went into a coma. This was followed by the (apparent) cessation of breathing and heart beat. His body temperature dropped to the point where frost formed on his body (inside the TARDIS!). A hour or so later he awoke in (apparently) perfect health!
Diamond said:
“….your cost for regenerations is too low ….. On the other hand, maybe my cost it too high... after all, it's only occurred once in my campaign. But I want to squash munchkinism, as if any advantage can be abused that's it. Hrm, hrm.”
The whole purpose of assigning points to characters is to assure that all the characters are “fair.” Points are basically just and anti-munchkin rule. If put the cost of regeneration (or any major advantage) too low it negates the whole purpose of assigning points.
For example I’m playing a GURPS Doctor Who game. I have a Time Lord character. His total point value ended up at 608 (In GURPS I gave Regeneration 275 pt cost), however I didn’t even add up my points until we’d played 2 adventures. My GM knows I’m not a munchkin so he doesn’t care how many points I have as long as my character is “true to the game.” With mature enough players, points don’t matter. However if were trying to make a Doctor Who game that anyone can play it had better be munchkin proof.
Diamond said:
“What did the chest paralyzig maneuver do? I can't remember it. Please remind me what happened when it was used on the show.”
The Doctor made a fist with two fingers sticking out (like the V for victory or scissors in “Rock-Paper-Scissors”). He the (with palm facing the floor) pressed the two extended fingers into the center of the chest of the victim. For some reason the victim would be instantly paralyzed. He would continue to stand in whatever position he was in when the fingers pressed against his chest. The Doctor usually kept fairly still himself (perhaps the force and angel is important?). I think the victim could move his eyes. The Doctor explained that the paralysis became permanent if it was held to long. (we’ve seen him use it for up to half a minute with out ill effects). Victims who are released (by the removal of the fingers) seem to have a slightly sore chest. Hope this helps!
------------------
Just remember, even though it’s a vacuum,
In space no one can hear you Clean.
-J.T.
The whole Rapid Healing question, was based on the Doctor's 'healing coma,' which he used a few times. Also several other miscellaneous references made mention of such things.
The willpower duels could have been psionic, but I don't think so. Perhaps they had elements of both.
The ICON System, to me, is a nice player friendly system ... quick to learn, easy to use. Keep things simple. That's why whenever I go to write something, I look for existing examples. So, with this in mind, when the question of Time Lord regeneration came up, I looked for an existing example. The only thing that matched closely was the Trill symbionts.
So, here we have a joined Trill, who could be killed or die naturally and have the symbiont removed to live on in a new host. When joined, the symbiont and Trill share their memories and join their personalities to become a new personality.
Effectively, the same character lives on, but with a new body and a new personality ... sound familiar?
The Trill don't have to pay any cost for the ability to receive a symbiont. Even after a Trill has joined with a symbiont, they don't pay any cost.
A joined Trill gain three Symbiont Skills per host, each Skill receives a bonus and is cheaper to improve.
With my Regeneration Advantage, I gave the Time Lords three Regeneration Skills ... and only three ... ever! They function just like the Symbiont Skills. However they do not accumulate. The cost of this Advantage is three Development Points, one point for each Regeneration Skill.
Interestingly, the Trill get all this and more ... free.
I just wanted to say that I like what you guys are doing.
Dr Who was my first TV love, long before Star Trek. I have all of the FASA stuff, Timelord and dozens of reference books. I gave up on the New Adventures after a while, though.
You guys mentioned the audio tapes, but I was wondering if you got the Videos over in the US, such as 'Auton' and the Sontarran story and the Liz Shaw story (who's names I can't remember?
On the subject of regeneration: I wouldn't bother to give it a points cost. It is not a particularly useful attribute IMHO, and should not affect gameplay. Dr Who should not be a combat oriented game, but if the Timelord suffers fatal damage, the regeneration process should take him out of the rest of the scenario, anyway.
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Greg
"Calm may work for Locutus of Borg here, but I'm freaked and intend to stay that way."
Xander, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Prophecy Girl.
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