Destroyers in Starfleet

[Mig1]

I was thinking: There really aren't any truely canonical starfleet designs called Destroyer, and according to Spacedock, which I assume is correct, starfleet doesn't have any becuase a destroyer is primarily a military vessel.

Well, that may be true, but destroyers in waterborne navies are defensive ships, not offensive. The term destroyer comes from "submarine destroyer", from the WW1 era.

So, that, and the fact that you could slap on some scientific gear onto a spacedock design, and why not have destroyers in Starfleet?

For that matter, what do you all think about having destroyer type vessels serving in federation militias (like the VDF or ADF)?

[Delta]

The Escort classes of ships pretty much fills the role of Destroyers as you have described them (defnesive platforms).

Look at the Defiant-class Heavy Escort. A great majority of the mission it ran during the Dominion War were defensive/escort related. Even in large scale battles, I still see the Defiant-class Heavy Escort as a close support vessile. The best example of this is in the battle between the Romulans and the Federation over the Promethious (forgive the spelling if it is wrong). An Akira-class vessile was supported/flanked by two Defiant-class ships. While one could argue otherwise, I believe that the Defiant-class ships role in that battle were mainly to defend the Akira as it pounded the Roumlans with it's heavy weapons.

[Mig1]

Originally posted by Michael Brinkhues:
@Mig1

In WW I a destroyer might have been a defensive ship. But i wouldn't call a modern missile destroyer with a bunch of Tomahawks / Harpoons a devensive ship. The rules of the lille buggers have changed and so have their size (Arlight Burke class is bigger than a WW II light cruiser). Modern destroyers (the few that exist - Frigates take most of the jobs now) are multi-mission ships doing at least three jobs (Air Defence, Anti-Sub, Anti-Ship)

@Delta

I would rank the Defiant as a Corvet or a Torpedo-Boat (german WWII-Navy style, not a PT) rather than a destroyer. She is not capabel enough (seen above) to fill the current destroyer slot

As for a destroyer I would suggest a slightly upgraded Intrepid. After all she is extremly fast, agile, multi-mission capabel and packs quite a punch. Yet she has a small crew and a small hull. Drop the labs, add some torpedos and mines - Instant Destroyer.


Michael

P.S.: Isn't the Intrepid a bit Over-Armed with Type X phasers? At least for an Explorer?

Addition of the Tomahawks is really a factor of today's economy, like adding bombs to the F-14. You just have to do more jobs these days, and so the DDG gets Tomahawks.

Otherwise the role of the destroyer is still defensive primarily. Albeit fleet defence in an ASW, ASuW, and AD role.

The Escort does seam to fill that role, though with less versatility.

[Phantom]

This is my first post on this board. I have been lurking, such a sinister term, for the past few weeks and I must say I have found all the info thus far very interesting.

As to the reason why I am here now, it is a rather trival point but we must start somewhere. In an above post script it was asked "that isn't the Intrepid-class over-armed with Type X phasers"? You are forgeting that the Intrepid is a top of the line long-distance Explorer, meaning that they used the most up-to-date equipment, both weapons and scientific, they had at hand. Also, when on missions and a long way from help from home they would have to rely heavily on themselves for defense. Hence, the need for big guns. One only has to look at the Galaxy-class Explorer, it was armed with the best weaponry of its time.

[qerlin]

I would consider the Rigel or Saber class more of a destroyer than Defiants. Just change the designation in your campaign from light cruiser to destroyer.

[Capt. K. Vaughn]

Regarding the comment about the Intrepid-class Explorer being overarmed and then the further comment At least for an Explorer, one must always bear in mind the design parameters set out when a new class is commissioned.

While I was somewhat surpised at the choice of Type X's on an Intrepid, it still fits for an Explorer-type class.

Explorers are multi-role vessels designed to operate for extended periods of time in remote areas away from any established support systems as they push out the boundaries of the frontier.

When "Out There" they are on there own and in theory will rarely have another vessel come to their aid if they get into trouble.

In the case of the Intrepid-class, phasers are Starfleet's main weapon and given its versatility after some thought I could see why it would have a Type X especially with the limited storage it has for photon torpedoes. In the end, the design balances quite nicely as one group of players is about to find out.

Regards,
CKV.

[Michael Brinkhues]

@Mig1

In WW I a destroyer might have been a defensive ship. But i wouldn't call a modern missile destroyer with a bunch of Tomahawks / Harpoons a devensive ship. The rules of the lille buggers have changed and so have their size (Arlight Burke class is bigger than a WW II light cruiser). Modern destroyers (the few that exist - Frigates take most of the jobs now) are multi-mission ships doing at least three jobs (Air Defence, Anti-Sub, Anti-Ship)

@Delta

I would rank the Defiant as a Corvet or a Torpedo-Boat (german WWII-Navy style, not a PT) rather than a destroyer. She is not capabel enough (seen above) to fill the current destroyer slot

As for a destroyer I would suggest a slightly upgraded Intrepid. After all she is extremly fast, agile, multi-mission capabel and packs quite a punch. Yet she has a small crew and a small hull. Drop the labs, add some torpedos and mines - Instant Destroyer.


Michael

P.S.: Isn't the Intrepid a bit Over-Armed with Type X phasers? At least for an Explorer?

[Steve Long]

Is it possible that the old Miranda's are now used as Destroyers?

My interpretation of that in the DWS is that a "destroyer group" is a wartime term for a wing or squadron of ships of different types, generally none of them larger than a Cruiser, often composed of the remnants of other, partially destroyed, wings or squadrons. I also note that some Starfleet officers dislike the term for its militaristic connotations.

Of course, plenty of other explanations are possible if you don't like that'n.

Steve Long

[AslanC]

Last night I watched Sacrafice of Angels parts 1&2. In part two, right at the begining , when Sisko is giving commands, her referes to "Destroyers groups" and then gives them numbers.

Is it possible that the old Miranda's are now used as Destroyers?

Something there was.

Just my two strips of latinum

[Michael Brinkhues]

Okay, a proposal on a destroyer:

In my own campaigne I took a hint from the DS9TM and downgraded the Trepid's phasers to Typ VIII.

I added a "variant" of the ships class that is an "experimental" warship (Trepid's are ideal for this. Cheap, small crew, rugged). Differences are:

Drops special labs and some base labs
Drops aeroshuttle
Reduce sensor performance slightly
Adds additional torpedos and drones
Adds fighter launch bay(2), flightdeck and recovery deck for a total of 6 size 2 fighters (also normaly only 2 are assigned)

The result is a rugged, fast, small-crew destroyer.

Michael

[SIR SIG]

Why would SF build a ship let alone a variant to this standard.

Strictly warships are a no-no for SF.

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SIR SIG a Aussie TREK Narrator

[Michael Brinkhues]

Originally posted by SIR SIG:
Why would SF build a ship let alone a variant to this standard.

Strictly warships are a no-no for SF.

That's why they left some labs in

Seriously:

a) I always assumed we have "two Starfleets". One beeing shown to the general populace with the Galaxie-Explorers and Cpt. like Picard and one to get the job done with ships like Saber and Akira

b) The "working fleet" is composed mostly of lighter craft. I assume that there are plans to bolster them with heavier units when a conflict gets serious (SF assuming they have time to do so) To this end they are planning variants of current Explorers /upgrades of older ships etc, sometimes building prototypes

c) Given the number of Trepids in the SRM and the ship beeing rather new it seems to be easily build. So it makes an ideal plattform to upgun and, given the rather small size/crew, an ideal test plattform

d) It's not a warship-only craft. I only pulled the two special labs and left them with the basic lab complement for their science rating.

The aeroshuttle is gone since it's not needed for a patroll/limited science craft

During peacetime there most of the fighter space can be filled with shuttles

The enhanced magazins, specially the drone magazin, come in handy during exploration

I pulled the Top-line sensors since I assume them extremly costly and this ship can do with one class less.

The rest (shields, weapons etc.) are like the originall Intrepid from SRM (with my "Light Explorer" Intrepid having smaller phasers)

e) The ship is planned along the lines of a Defiant (fast, strong defence ship with some science cap) or the Lakota-Refit (upgunning / teching older craft)

Michael

[Arithon]

Prior to the Borg, StarFleet has been more of a Exploratory then Military service. However after the Borg, SF had to rethink it's Priorities, thus producing ships like the Defiant ships that were Military designed. then comes the Dominion War that put these designs to the test. Of course with tactical information Voyager has given SF on the Borg, wether the Military Fleet is still needed is questionable..


As for moduifying a Trepid? I can't see that.. Top of the line Explorer, and a proven design.. that's why you got Mirandas and Excelsiors for.. since they are being sent to the breakers why not use them for test beds? Drone Launchers, Are you meaning like Star Fleet Basttles? If so make them optional, and explain the rules to them. My opinion are that Drones completly overbalance the game.. why fire photons or even Quantums when you can launch overwhelming scatterpacks that never miss? particularly since the other SFB weapons are not mentioned?

SFB is a nice game, but it's a different Game.. I can see Modifying the FASA ships as they were built along similar minds, however FASA and LUG Treks were built with Roleplaying in mind, Star Fleet Battles were designed only with a Tactical War Campaign in mind, thus having a totally different game system. that's why Prime Directive was designed much later as an Afterthought, and while I never played, my understanding of the game from other opinions was it was just that, an after thought.

[Mig1]

I think he meant Probes

[SIR SIG]

Originally posted by Michael Brinkhues:
That's why they left some labs in

Seriously:

a) I always assumed we have "two Starfleets". One beeing shown to the general populace with the Galaxie-Explorers and Cpt. like Picard and one to get the job done with ships like Saber and Akira

b) The "working fleet" is composed mostly of lighter craft. I assume that there are plans to bolster them with heavier units when a conflict gets serious (SF assuming they have time to do so) To this end they are planning variants of current Explorers /upgrades of older ships etc, sometimes building prototypes

c) Given the number of Trepids in the SRM and the ship beeing rather new it seems to be easily build. So it makes an ideal plattform to upgun and, given the rather small size/crew, an ideal test plattform

d) It's not a warship-only craft. I only pulled the two special labs and left them with the basic lab complement for their science rating.

The aeroshuttle is gone since it's not needed for a patroll/limited science craft

During peacetime there most of the fighter space can be filled with shuttles

The enhanced magazins, specially the drone magazin, come in handy during exploration

I pulled the Top-line sensors since I assume them extremly costly and this ship can do with one class less.

The rest (shields, weapons etc.) are like the originall Intrepid from SRM (with my "Light Explorer" Intrepid having smaller phasers)

e) The ship is planned along the lines of a Defiant (fast, strong defence ship with some science cap) or the Lakota-Refit (upgunning / teching older craft)

Michael

Okay its got labs, I didn't see that, it must be an explorer then.

Why drop the Phasers if its 'warlike'?

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SIR SIG a Aussie TREK Narrator