Not replicatable but transportable?

[Red]

This probably a stupid question but what is the canon reason for items that cannot be repliacted but they can be transported.

I am asking this because as I understand it Replicator technology is and improvment of Transporter technology.

now I understand that it my require more energy to replicate some materials.

So what am I missing?

Red

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"Being afraid all of the time of forgetting somebody's name. Not...not knowing what to do with your hands...I mean, I am the guy who writes down things to remember to say when there's a party. And then when he finally gets there, he winds up alone in the corner trying to look comfortable examining a potted plant."
-Lieutentant Reginald Barclay

[tonyg]

I believe there are several reasons for this. Here are some of them.

First off, transporters are more complex devices that replicators. THey have to be in order to be able to tranport living matter safely. They must also work to narrower tolerances. If you replicate too much water in your tea, it just weak. Too much water in you security chief and he might be dead. TO allow for this tranports work at the quantum level, while replicators work at the molecular level. For most items molecular level is good enough, but some things need a higher desgree or resoultion than the replcator can provide.

Secondly, all that information for the pattern has to be stored, and that would take up memory. Items that would require quatum level replicator patterns would take up most of the ships memory (as in the DS9 Epiosde "Our Man Bashir").

Thirdly, it is possible that something that "can't be replicated" could be, but that is isn't practical. For instance, it might take the equivalent of $100 worth of energy to produce $1 worth of Latinum. And such items, being produced at the quantum level would probably be detected as "synthetic" by ssensor scans. Probably be the cubic zirconia of Latinum.

Lastly, there is pattern degredation. A transport normally only holds an object as a pattern for a fairly short period of time, well under a minute. But the longer a pattern is held "in stasis" the greater the charnce that the patter will begin to erode and the object will be lost. Replicator patters, being simplier don't seem to have this problem.

[reimero]

You hit the nails on the head, Tony. A lot of it has to do with power consumption, memory and quantum vs molecular-level replication or transport. In addition, a transporter works with a very specific object or life form to be transported. Every time someone or something is transported, it, he or she is literally scanned in anew. Unless something super-bizzare happens (like with the Thomas Riker episode) it is impossible to clone people using transporters. Finally, I'm sure the Heisenburg Principle has something to do with it: the transporters have Heisenburg compensators, the replicators don't.

[toadkiller]

Even more of it has to do with the fact that if you could replicate anything you could transport then any time a character was killed they could just replicate another one! So, the energy/bandwidth rule was devised.

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TK

[Phoenix]

Non-canon tid-bit, in one TNG novel that I can't remember the name of, it was stated Latnum cannot be transported either. It also included the fact that Latnum realy had nothing to do with the gold bars, this was later made canon in the DS9 episode "Who Morns Morn".

Phoenix...

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The more you disapprove,
The more fun it is for me.

[Paul]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Red:
I am asking this because as I understand it Replicator technology is and improvment of Transporter technology.</font>

As I understand it, Replicator technology is based on Transporter technology, but can only create simple patterns. Complex patterns (biological organisms, Warp Cores, etc...) are generally beyond the scope of replicators.

Transporter traces are used to show who or what used a transporter and when - but the logs are updated every time the transporter is used. The pattern is not stored, except in a buffer during transport. Also, the energy requirements of replication make the creation of complex constructions very difficult at best (hence Voyager's crew had Replicator Rations when lost in the Delta Quadrant - to conserve energy).

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"...and more controversial than Oolon Colluphid's trilogy of philosophical blockbusters Where God went Wrong, Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes, and Who is this God Person Anyway?"
- The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams (dec.)

[Robbert Raets]

The TNG tech manual states that replicators draw organic and inorganic matter from 'storage' tanks around the ship in a transporter-esque manner. Take a little bit of this metal, some water, proteins and hydrocarbonites(Carbo-hydrates?) et voila, a plate of gagh!

Cor, if everyone started replicating jewelry, the ship'd be without gold or silver supplies within days.

[calguard66]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Robbert Raets:
The TNG tech manual states that replicators draw organic and inorganic matter from 'storage' tanks around the ship in a transporter-esque manner. Take a little bit of this metal, some water, proteins and hydrocarbonites(Carbo-hydrates?) et voila, a plate of gagh!

Cor, if everyone started replicating jewelry, the ship'd be without gold or silver supplies within days.</font>

Not really, because they don't keep gold or silver, or aluminium, or anything else on hand in large quantity... except for spare parts they might need if the industrial replicator is off line.

ST can re-arrange matter at the atomic level... they can turn lead into gold, iron into lead, etc. They just keep a base pool of organic and inorganic matter handy, and convert it into whatever they want.

They probably recycle broken parts, unused food, the plates that show up in the replicator, crew waste products, and everything else. The atom that was in your steak two days ago is now part of the new port phaser coupling.


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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[Robbert Raets]

Are you sure?

[qerlin]

I think the arguments are bogus. It you can't replicate, you shouldn't be able to transport.

Then again, the idea of some not replicable that isn't huge...dumb.

This is probably -- other than the time travel every other week thing -- my biggest beef with Trek. The transporter, though a neat device, just is a terrible thing from a storytelling point. There are too many things you should be able to do with it that negate any real hazard for the characters (if you have biofiliters, can store pattern, etc...)

But since it's there...I would say you can'ty transport what you can't replicate. Heck...it would make latinum even more valuable. And harder to pirate.

[spyone]

IIRC, the canon and fairly-canon sources (Tech Manual and such) are kinda fuzzy on whether Replicators are capable of alchemy. They say that the raw materials for the Replicator are "Formulated for minimum replication power requirements." This distincly implies that other raw materials could be used at an increased power cost, but it unclear just how much "change" the device is capable of.

While we're here, I'd like to quote a piece that many people seem to have forgotten:
"This system is relatively expensive to operate in terms of the mass of the hardware involved and the energy cost of operations, but it is a significant savings over a traditional food preperation system." The rest of the paragraph explains that the "savings" are:
1) that the system allows much greater variety from much less stored material (1/200 mass)
2) that the system allows 82% of the raw materials to be recycled after use (the remaining 18% having been turned into muscle-mass and stuff)
3) the total automation of the system reduces the required support crew.

Freeze-dried food isn't cheap, but NASA finds the increased cost of manufacture well worth the savings in other areas.
Due to the extensive use of Replicators on Starfleet vessels (where planting a deck to wheat isn't really practical), some people seem to have gotten the idea that the things are cheap.

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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.

[This message has been edited by spyone (edited 09-10-2001).]

[tonyg]

querlin,

Actually the idea of something being transportable but not replicable isn't that dumb. Similar thing happen in the real world.

For instance, you can print some decindt quality art with a home comuter and printer. It not too tough to come up with decent images usable for, say, a role-playing game. On the other hand, if you were to take a computer scan of something like a $20 bill print it out on a typical printer, the results would hardly pass any real inspection. Special paper aside the resolution would be too low, the colors a bit off, and the ink would run it it got wet. But there are commercial print machines that can produce very good forgeries. Same would also hold true with something like the Mona Lisa.

A repicator is the home computer. A tranporter is the Commical pirnter.

[tonyg]

Spyone,
I agree with you. I supect that there are lots of time when a replicator is a relatively expensive way to get something, but Starfllet considers it worthwhile in order to save space aboard thier ships. Otherwise the cargo bays would be full of self-sealing stembolts.

[Aldaron]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by qerlin:
I think the arguments are bogus. It you can't replicate, you shouldn't be able to transport.

Then again, the idea of some not replicable that isn't huge...dumb.

This is probably -- other than the time travel every other week thing -- my biggest beef with Trek. The transporter, though a neat device, just is a terrible thing from a storytelling point. There are too many things you should be able to do with it that negate any real hazard for the characters (if you have biofiliters, can store pattern, etc...)

But since it's there...I would say you can'ty transport what you can't replicate. Heck...it would make latinum even more valuable. And harder to pirate.</font>

Ummm...what about people? They can't be replicated, but we see them transported every episode.

I work it that just about anything can be transported, except really wierd stuff (like Bajoran Orbs) that don't quite "fit" into our universe.

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"Every atom in our bodies was forged in the furnace of ancient stars - it is our destiny to return home..."

[Klingermann]

I thought the whole reason that replicators can't create life, toxins, or a good cup of joe was because the gel just can't do it. Isn't bio-memetic gel capable of replicting anything though? I mean I realize that it uses a highly specialized replicator (or at least I think it does) but I think it can literally make anything you want including cloned and altered life forms..

Could be wrong though.