Question about the Borg

[Klingermann]

The armor issue is a big thing though. Borg dermal armor is pretty impressive and it seems that at least in the future it just gets worse and worse. By the last episode of Voyager is looked like the Borg were insane things to behold (partially trans-phasic, had personal force fields plus personal "armor" systems.. Ouch!). Imagine, future borg could literally assimilate you through a wall, and a whole new dimension to "resistance is futile", eh?

Even with modern borg though the threat is almost as bad. If your shields get dropped, you're on a cube, or they get your modulation, they can literally transport right behind you and have assimilation probes in your neck before you know what happened. Projectile weapons will work but the borg have patented ways of throwing a target off-guard or simply overwhelming them. Bottom line is you don't mess with them, ever!..

Unless, of course, you're Worf, Data, the EMH, and possibly Tuvok.



[This message has been edited by Klingermann (edited 09-10-2001).]

[Aldaron]

I dunno...I'm starting to see parallels here...

I'm starting to think we should send Ewoks against the Borg: low-tech weaponry, thick fur to help stop the assimilation probes...and a proven track-record of taking out vastly tactically superior forces!

I think this could work!!

EWOK CHIEF: [i]Yup yup! Nop cheeka nup yub!

HAN SOLO (to 3PO): What did he say?

C3PO: I could be mistaken, sir - they're using a very primitive dialect. But I believe he said: "Resistance is futile".

Hehehe...oh, hell - back to my medication, methinks...

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"Every atom in our bodies was forged in the furnace of ancient stars - it is our destiny to return home..."

[Dan Gurden]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ComaBoy:
How about an M-16 with a phaser slung under the barrel a la a grenade launcher, shotgun or flashlight as is done today </font>

Why an M16 at all?

Aftewr all its a damned Antique weapon that has been out of production for nearly 400 years if the post holocaust courts Q showed us had Standard Military guards.



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DanG.

"Hi, I'm Commander Troy McClure, you might remember me from other academy training holo-simulations as, Abandon Ship, the quickest way out, and I sense danger, 101 things you dont need a Betazoid to know..."

http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk

[Dan Gurden]

Yeah, but saying that a Borg Drone has armour is an irrelevancy when considering if a Drone has shields or not.

After all, the Defiant has armour. Are you saying that to take out a starship all you need is a shotgun and some buckshot?

OK extreme comparrison.

But remember, that the Borg accept that some losses will occur while their shields adapt, and if the physical armour helps ensure the longevity of the drone then it is simply a logical advancement. Especially if crews resort to hand to hand combat...

This subject is getting like the Marines topic, two camps, and neither side will change their minds...

I know that in my world, Projectile weapons work the same as energy weapons. Good for a couple of shots, but no good after adaption, hell even less useful, at least a phasers frequency can be changed...

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DanG.

"Hi, I'm Commander Troy McClure, you might remember me from other academy training holo-simulations as, Abandon Ship, the quickest way out, and I sense danger, 101 things you dont need a Betazoid to know..."

http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk

[Phantom]

Remember that episode of Voy. with the super future borg. He was armoured up the yin-yang to the point that he was able to survive the destruction to the cube he was on.

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In the Praetors Name!

[StyroFoam Man]

This message has been removed on request by the
poster

[SIR SIG]

As to armour, is it just the Tactical Drones that have it? Or they have the 'heavy' armour and the other drones have 'light' armour?

Styro: Some acid's would eat through the plastic. Depends both on what acids, plastics and the molar strength of the acid.

If its 15+ 'industrial' molar HCL, then I'd imagine it would go through alot of things


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SIR SIG

More then meets the eye,
His a MapMaker in disguise.

[StyroFoam Man]

This message has been removed on request by the
poster

[Captain Leana Craig]

To try and put an end to this, and to quote Q talking to Q his son)

DO.NOT.PROVOKE.THE.BORG

if you see the Borg RLF (run like "#*@)

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Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges

"In time of war, the law falls silent"

Admiral Ross to Dr Bashir

[This message has been edited by Captain Leana Craig (edited 09-11-2001).]

[Lancer]

L

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by StyroFoam Man:
I just can't see SF using M-16s...

Come on.... I'm sure the Klingons have somthing much better.... As do Earth, the Vulcans could whipp somthing up....

Even if the Borg do adapt in 300-400 shots, its still a good idea...

But not M-16s.... Please...
</font>

Your highness, I was the one who first mentioned M-16s and I plead guilty on all charges brought against me for that.
To my defense I must state that I just mentioned this antiquated earth weapon to give the reader an association with a familiar object in order to provide an adequate frame of reference for any mental pictures that might come up in my readers mind when trying to picture a member of a RR-team armed with firearms.

Of course I could have just as well made reference to the WMTT-ohmygod-007 warp-velocity rifle from wemakethattoo ltd.

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"To seek, to strive, to find and not to yield" - Alfred Tennyson

[SIR SIG]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mac417:
My take on it is that Picard simply used a means of attack the Borg couldn't have possibly be adaptive to AT THE TIME. Were the Borg assailed by projectile weaponry over long enough a time, they could have easily adapted. As for his view that projectile attacks could never be adapted to, haven't we already seen that drones can project personal force fields? If all it takes is a an away team armed with Uzis (or the 24th century equivalent) to take out the Borg, that severely lowers their potential as villains.
--MAC</font>

Okay then is the atypical drone's adaption shield vs energy?

IIRC they have never used these 'shields' in hand to hand combat before.

It may be a simple extension to imply projectiles that are not energy based would be the same.

Thus the Dermal armour to take this kinda physical damage.

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Thats Cpt SIR SIG to you!

More then meets the eye,
His a MapMaker in disguise.

[Dan Gurden]

I have stated in previous threads that my belief is that hand to hand presents a VERY different scenario to the Borg.

While they can adapt to energy and projectile weapons, the very fact that ballistics prove that all wepons have a predicatable trace to their capabilities proves that they should be able to be adapted to.

And as Don said, you would expect the borg to manage better than a jury-rigged forcefield built out of 2 comm badges in 'A Fist Full of Datas'.

Howver, hand to hand attacks, in addition to figuring very low on a Borgs threat scale (after all they want to be close to assimilate targets...), but hand to hand will vary between individuals and even blows...
Hell I dare anyone to throw exactly the same punch twice in succesion, it might feel the same, but there willbe slight variations, that would alter things...

That is why the Borg cant adapt to hand to hand, variation and low threat assesment.

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DanG.

"Hi, I'm Commander Troy McClure, you might remember me from other academy training holo-simulations as, Abandon Ship, the quickest way out, and I sense danger, 101 things you dont need a Betazoid to know..."

http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk

[SIR SIG]

Interesting points Dan! Especially the 'not the same punch twice'.

As to to the adaption shield; it is therefore a physical forcefield as well as a energy shield then.

One's (29th century Borg) shield had the power to reflect Borg who came in contact with him!

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Thats Cpt SIR SIG to you!

More then meets the eye,
His a MapMaker in disguise.

[mactavish]

Hey, maybe it's all simply a plot device!

It's not a complex issue: if you want the Borg to die from bullets, then they do... if not, then they don't.

Okay, sorry... but his has simply gotten out of hand...

On the other hand, here's an idea:

Borg Adaptability (+6): All Borg drones (except those disconnected from the hive mind) have the exceptional benefit of adapting to nearly any situation faced by any other member of the Collective.

Whenever a drone faces a hostile situation of any kind, make an Intellect + Logic roll against a Difficulty of 12. This Difficulty is reduced by one for each unit subjected to the event (whether the unit survives or not). This bonus is cumulative.

If (or rather when) the roll is successful, that drone (assuming it survives) and all other drones belonging to the same sub-collective (i.e. vessel, uni-matrix, etc.) become completely immune to that hazard, attack, or whatever.

This could represent a specific mode of attack, an environmental danger, or whatever. This adaptability extends to Borg vessels as well; assume an Intellect of 4 and a Logic of +2 for a Borg ship for the aforementioned roll.

Whenever the drone (or vessel) in questions uploads its memory through the vinculum to which it is linked, the resistance acquired by that drone (or vessel) is integrated by the rest of the Collective. While there are not hard and fast rules for this, assume that (if successful) the upload will reach the center of the Collective and be disbursed within 3d6 days.

Note that an attack specifically designed to work against the Borg (i.e. high-energy phasers, cybernetic viruses, etc.) is a different situation altogether. The Difficulties for such rolls should remain in the Very Difficult to Nearly Impossible range.

Routine situations faced by drones, such as the vacuum of space or temperature extremes, are automatic adaptations.

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Just an idea, you know?

mactavish out.

[This message has been edited by mactavish (edited 09-12-2001).]

[Klingermann]

We had an interesting revelation about the Borg in one of our pre-game sessions this week and I thought it sounded wacky but sweet. Because the Borg are one united collective, completely locked in with one another, is it possible that a uni-matrix or perhaps an entire cube's worth of drone courage points are available to any action the collective takes? Think about it, in the case of the average cube that's 10-30,000 drones, at least 20-60,000 courage points or more all available for expenditure on a single action..

WOW!

Any thoughts on this?


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-"We are the Borg.. You're hickory smoked."
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[This message has been edited by Klingermann (edited 09-17-2001).]