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You imagine? What are you, blind?<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JT:
Kira is very beautiful (I imagine)</font>She is definitely quite beautiful.
The only reason I can see for expressing any doubt on this matter is that Terry Farrell makes most other women look plain by comparison.
Steve Long
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Sounds like a research project to me...<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by J T:
I got the cost from an episode where Kira impersonates a Prostitute to get access to a Cardassian Prison (I can get the title if you want). She was playing one of those “You wouldn’t know what to do with me” Prostitutes, and Kira is very beautiful (I imagine). If anyone knows the price range for expensive versus cheap hookers then it should be easy to use this data point to find an acceptable multiplication factor.
</font>
Any volunteers?
Just remember, when the police stop you and ask you what your doing, the response is a price comparrison for a research project...
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Dan.
"A couple of thoughts from a random mind!"
http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk
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To see my idea of Beauty (sigh's lovingly) checkout –
http://www.geocities.com/willbswift/costchart.html
When it comes to women other then Robbie I AM blind!
And I take NO responsibility for any “Research Projects” you guys might undertake.
[This message has been edited by J T (edited 05-31-2001).]
[This message has been edited by J T (edited 05-31-2001).]
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StyroFoam Man said:
“Minor fight last night... Ass-kissing time!”
While I can't agree with you rating Liz over Robbie I do hope everything works out for you two.
StyroFoam Man said:
“Back on subject: Decided on a price of 4,000 for a "cheap" hooker.”
I shudder to think what devious (and degraded) plots are churning in your feverish little mind.
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Just remember, even though it’s a vacuum,
In space no one can hear you Clean.
-J.T.
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I can't imagine trying to count out 4,000 credits in a back ally for "Quick Trip Around The Block On Whatever's Handy"!
Never mind using a Ferengi Padd (you could track the criminal activity with it). I also figure that you would not also pass 40 slips of GOLD PRESSED LATINUM either.
I guess that I am not a true Trekie since I did not see the episode that was refered to about Kira. She could have also meant that she would not do the deed for less than that amount...
It would be like in the movie Indecent Proposal. In this case she was pretending to say that this amount is her price. Also if everyone thinks that the Cardassian that she is with will be occupied for the evening, no one comes looking for him. She knocks him out and has an alliby (sp)for the evening.
I get the impression from all of the shows - Kirk, Picard, etc. that food, clothing, basic medical, and education is not something that you pay for in the Federation. Replicators have done away with the need for these items to cost anything.
The only time that someone pays for something is for non replicated items. Take Picard's brother's occupation. Think that you can just replicate a bottle of Wine that tastes the same? Art can be copied, just as today, but is it the same? Music, Holonovels, etc. get someone reconigition not money.
DON'T GET ME WRONG! I respect the enormus (sp) amount of time (and I agree with the Federation ship prices and equipment) just you should put a disclaimer on the Federation Citizens for the basics that they have no cost.
Worf was picking out a wedding present for someone and did not even identify himself for the purposes of keeping track (not that the computer could not figure it out) of how much he owed. The only reason why they have replicator rations on Voyager is to conserve power. Too bad they ejected the Omega Molucules...and just when they were getting control of them.
It is kind of like having Food Stamps in the US. You cannot eat out at a fancy resturant, but you don't go hungry either.
The best thing the Federation could do for the Cardassians is to give them replicators. That is the main reason for their Military running everything, or so the episode in which Picard is trapped and interigated leads you to believe.
Now trade between worlds that are not part of the Federation there would be goods or services that would trade hands.
ONE THING THAT I WANT TO THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU FOR THE THE FOLLOWING!
"One quad = 1x10^16 bytes = 10,000 terabytes"
You don't know how frustraiting is is to not have known this! Where did you find it? I am a computer tech by trade and have wondered ever since they mentioned it the first time.
As a correction note: on your page you have a catagory twice.
"COMMUNICATIONTIONS DEVICES
MISCELLANEOUS EQUIPMENT"
You have communications devices later.
As you come across more prices and items are you going to have them on your page? Hope so! I think you have done a great thing here. I would hope that you would put in individual ship items that could be something that someone could buy...say a Personal Holodeck or Holosuite as Quark has.
I still cannot find out how many SU's it takes to have a Personal or Main Holodeck so it is hard to figure how much one might cost. In Spacedock it refers to the Holodeck adventures product. I could not find out anything about it other than it has an independent power supply (based on the shows).
What would be great to see is a Pay chart as well. That way if a group of PCs wanted to purchase a surplus starship, you could figure out how long it would take them to earn it.
Thanks again!
PS - if you want to make your site more kickin than it already is, have the items linked to other sites that give a description and maybe a picture of what the item is. There are a number of things that I have no idea what they are...then again, I have already admitted to not being a total Trekie...
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To get back on subject, why would want to replicate a moon? Why waste the resources and energy when the universe has done it for you for free.
I would figure that a price for a moon would be far more cheaper. While, yes expensive, you don't have spend money on the resources, the rental fees on the industrial replicators, union workers, to operate the site, ships to move the large sections around...:
I would see a moon's worth being more close related to its location (prime real estate close to the Federation core is probabely expensive.) The resources available to the planet. Plus, ownership of the moon would depend on what kind of government that it exists on.
I imagine the reason Quark's cousin Gint was able to own a moon was because it floating around in some unclaimed part of space and the locals were more than willing to give it up cheaply.
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Scottmage said:
“I can't imagine trying to count out 4,000 credits in a back ally…I also figure that you would not also pass 40 slips of GOLD PRESSED LATINUM either.”
That’s a good point. 40 slips would be a bit unwieldy. Maybe that’s where those other 48 Ferengi Currencies come into play?
Scottmage said:
“…I did not see the episode that was refered to about Kira. She could have also meant that she would not do the deed for less than that amount...”
She was definitely posing as a prostitute. If the asking price was ridiculously high (or low) then the Cardassian would have reacted very differently.
Scottmage said:
“I get the impression from all of the shows - Kirk, Picard, etc. that food, clothing, basic medical, and education is not something that you pay for in the Federation.”
You don’t pay for water at most restaurants or shopping malls. In small quantities it’s free. But if you tried to fill up 6 fifty-five gallon drums with water at the local Mcdonalds you can bet they’d have something to say about it.
Likewise food (and most other items) are so cheap that they are routinely given away. After all it only cost 5 credits (about 5 cents in the USA) to pay for a meal at the Replimat. On most UFP facilities the replicated food could be free (just as long as you don’t try to load up for a 5-year mission).
Scottmage said:
“Replicators have done away with the need for these items to cost anything.”
Everything costs something. It may be extremely low but you can put a price (in terms of energy if nothing else) on everything.
Scottmage said:
“The only time that someone pays for something is for non replicated items.”
Or when they replicate food at the Replimat on DS9 (see the DS9 RPG Core book page 26)
Scottmage said:
“DON'T GET ME WRONG! I respect the enormus (sp) amount of time (and I agree with the Federation ship prices and equipment)…”
Thank you very much.
Scottmage said:
“…just you should put a disclaimer on the Federation Citizens for the basics that they have no cost.”
Being a Federation each planet works its economy in its own way. Federation Credits are used as a medium of exchange between different worlds. On Earth I assume that the government provides enough to meet ALL basic needs and a lot of extras too. Things could be very different on other worlds.
Scottmage said:
“Worf was picking out a wedding present for someone and did not even identify himself for the purposes of keeping track (not that the computer could not figure it out) of how much he owed.”
Starfleet officers don’t get paid. As long as their replicator usage doesn’t exceed certain limits they can replicate whatever they want.
Scottmage said:
“It is kind of like having Food Stamps in the US. You cannot eat out at a fancy resturant, but you don't go hungry either.”
Exactly! Only on earth you can eat at fancy restaurants too…just not every day.
Scottmage said:
“The best thing the Federation could do for the Cardassians is to give them replicators.”
They did this. They Cardies got 4 Class 4 replicators.
Scottmage said:
“That is the main reason for their Military running everything, or so the episode in which Picard is trapped and interigated leads you to believe.”
I’m not sure if a lack of replicators is the cause of the Cardies political problems. They’ve had replicator tech for a long time. Look at DS9 - there are Cardie replicators everywhere.
Scottmage said:
“ONE THING THAT I WANT TO THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU FOR THE THE FOLLOWING!
"One quad = 1x10^16 bytes = 10,000 terabytes"”
You’re welcome! Actually I almost didn’t put that info on the page. It’s an economic page, not a computer tech page.
Scottmage said:
“Where did you find it?”
In a TNG episode (the one were Barclay thinks he’s dying from transporter disease) they say that a transporter has to process billions of kiloquads to beam a person. In “The Physics of Star Trek” Lawrence M. Krauss calculates how many bytes it would take to store a human being. I’ll admit that the figure is a little ballpark (it could be off by a factor of 5) but it’s close enough for my games.
Scottmage said:
“As a correction note: on your page you have a catagory twice.
"COMMUNICATIONTIONS DEVICES
MISCELLANEOUS EQUIPMENT"
You have communications devices later.”
There are 3 separate section to the price list. One for Industrial replication, another for High-resolution replication and a third for non-replicatible items. For this reason most categories appear 3 times.
Scottmage said:
“As you come across more prices and items are you going to have them on your page?”
As long as they are from the TV series or the licensed RPGs. (Steve Long and the other “back door” writer are special cases.)
Scottmage said:
“I think you have done a great thing here.”
Thank you very much.
Scottmage said:
“I would hope that you would put in individual ship items that could be something that someone could buy...say a Personal Holodeck or Holosuite as Quark has.”
That might not be a bad idea. I’d have to look at each system separately. Most can be replicated so they will be cheap. But some (like the Warp Core) can’t. I’ll keep it in mind.
Scottmage said:
“I still cannot find out how many SU's it takes to have a Personal or Main Holodeck so it is hard to figure how much one might cost.”
A recreation Rating of 2 gets you one personal holodeck (probably about the size of Quark’s holosuits). This costs 16 SU’s. So (given my formula) its probably safe to say that on personal holodeck costs less then 9,600,000 Federation Credits. Please note the cost might be MUCH less. I’d have to research it more.
Scottmage said:
“What would be great to see is a Pay chart as well. That way if a group of PCs wanted to purchase a surplus starship, you could figure out how long it would take them to earn it.”
Starfleet personnel are not paid. All the professions whose pay I can verify (from the TV series or the RPG) are listed under “Services” at the end of the price list.
Scottmage said:
“PS - if you want to make your site more kickin than it already is, have the items linked to other sites that give a description and maybe a picture of what the item is.”
That’s too much work for a lazy person like me. If you want to know what they are then look them up. Every piece of equipment has a book and page number.
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Just remember, even though it’s a vacuum,
In space no one can hear you Clean.
-J.T.
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Jake, you are exactly right.
I never meant to imply that the UFP (or any space power) replicates moons. Or that the price is equivalent to the replication cost. All I was saying is that the cost of a moon would have to be less (MUCH MUCH LESS) then the cost to replicate a moon.
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Just remember, even though it’s a vacuum,
In space no one can hear you Clean.
-J.T.
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JT, this equipment list of yours is pretty cool!
I noted that you don't have prices for housing right now. Do you plan to fill this gap anytime soon?
I am just curious what kind of housing a Starfleet Officer could expect after retiering from the Fleet after 20 or 30 years of service. Any suggestions?
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"To seek, to strive, to find and not to yield" - Alfred Tennyson
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To he who worked out the price of the moon to be replicated!! I mean this in the most respectful way but you have way too much time on your hands!!!
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Lt Marcus Kavart
Late USS Vengence
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[Personal post deleted and replaced with the following excerpt by Spyone]<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by J T:
Scottmage said:
“ONE THING THAT I WANT TO THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU FOR THE THE FOLLOWING!
"One quad = 1x10^16 bytes = 10,000 terabytes"”
You’re welcome! Actually I almost didn’t put that info on the page. It’s an economic page, not a computer tech page.
Scottmage said:
“Where did you find it?”
In a TNG episode (the one were Barclay thinks he’s dying from transporter disease) they say that a transporter has to process billions of kiloquads to beam a person. In “The Physics of Star Trek” Lawrence M. Krauss calculates how many bytes it would take to store a human being. I’ll admit that the figure is a little ballpark (it could be off by a factor of 5) but it’s close enough for my games.
</font>
From:
Holodeck and Computers FAQ
Last modified: February 21, 2000
Maintained by: Joshua Bell, joshb@microsoft.com
Archive site (WWW): http://www.aa.net/~skeksis/Star_Trek/
FTP site (text versions): ftp://ftp.cc.umanitoba.ca/startrek/minifaqs/
Copyright © 1994-2000, Joshua Bell. Not in the public domain. Permission to distribute this document, unedited and including this copyright notice is granted, provided no fees are charged for access beyond charges for downloading or connection time from a commercial information service. Publication of this document in a magazine or journal (in any media format) must be approved by the author.
Star Trek ®, Star Trek: The Next Generation ® and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine ® are trademarks of Paramount Pictures registered in the United States Patent and Trademark Office. Star Trek: Voyager is a trademark of Paramount Pictures.
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How big is a kiloquad?"
This hasn't been answered, and in the Encyclopedia, it says:
No, we don't know how many bytes are in a kiloquad. We don't even want to know. The reason the term was invented was specifically to avoid describing the data capacity of Star Trek's computers in 20th-century terms. It was feared ... that any such attempt would look foolish in just a few years, given the current rate of progress in that field.
However, many r.a.st.tech contributors have converged on kiloquad to mean 1000 (kilo) * 1 quadrillion bytes (or bits, but we'll stick with bytes for the explanation), the premise being that the phrase "quad" came into use instead of "pet" for Petabyte, since that sounds dumb. Then the kilo-, Mega- and Giga- prefixes were recycled. That makes one kiloquad = 2^60 bytes ~= 1 billion gigabytes, or 1 million million megabytes. That's a fair amount.
Is this technologically feasible, given that an isolinear chip, quoted at 2.15 kiloquad in the TNG TM is about the size of a microscope slide?
From H. Peter Anvin:
...The 2.15 kqd isolinear chips [would have] a bit density of 2.94e+15 bits/mm^3 (I have assumed the dimensions to be 90x30x2.5 mm, this is probably on the high side if you exclude the part where you handle the chip); that means each bit could form a cube 7.0 nm (70 [angstrom]) to the side. The chips are optical, which I assume means they are read and written with electromagnetic radiation that behaves somewhat approximately like light. 7 nm is in the far ultraviolet region-near X-ray region (visible light ends at about 200 nm) which is really pushing the limit. Assuming some form of multi-state encoding that may exist may push this down to near UV which would then be a bit more practical to deal with, and more "optical", but that is irrelevant.
Hence, what we "know" about ST computer technology seems to correlate pretty well to the definition 1 quad = 1 quadrillion bytes. It may be bits or bytes (it is only a factor of 8, obviously... it changes 7 nm to 14 nm if it is bits not bytes), but it seems to fit pretty well.
....
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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
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