local (planetary) police

[Diamond]

Looks to me like the easiest place to slip that in is by lowering the Search skill to 1.

[Dan Gurden]

Hey Diamond

Looks like we think alike. My earlier edit did just that! Check out the template at the top of the thread...

[Michael Barratt]

On a tangent to this...

To what degree do you all figure Federation planets have their own militia/defense forces - the Andorians seem to have one of quite large number, but the rest of the planets don't seem to have much mentioned - do you think most pre-Federation militias/defense forces are "assimiliated" into Starfleet?

There was a line in the latest DS9 (post-series) novel to that affect: where Nerys is wondering how she'd feel about trading in her Militia uniform for that of a Starfleet one...

The Doc

[Diamond]

Good question, Michael.

FASA made the assumption that when you joined the Federation, member worlds could keep their planetary forces BUT they were not allowed to have warp-capable armed starships. LUG did not make that assumption, as shown by "Among The Clans". There are reasons to go either way. In any case, let's see what's supported by the shows:

I am having a hard time thinking of any starships shown in the episodes that were members of the UFP. The Bajorans had some, but they aren't Federation members yet. Now, they might exist and we just never saw them, but their absense is conspicious.

I conclude that *most* Federation members don't see the need to have their own Starfleet. They have planetary defences and in-system patrol, rescue, and defense craft. Having their own Starfleet while paying for (part) of the Federation's starfleet would be very cost-inefficient. Beacuse of economies of scale, unified command, and inter-species synergy, Starfleet is likely to be more cost-efficient. But there are other reasons than economics to have a starfleet... as the Andorians show.

[Michael Barratt]

Originally posted by Diamond
Good question, Michael.

I am having a hard time thinking of any starships shown in the episodes that were members of the UFP. The Bajorans had some, but they aren't Federation members yet. Now, they might exist and we just never saw them, but their absense is conspicious.

I conclude that *most* Federation members don't see the need to have their own Starfleet. They have planetary defences and in-system patrol, rescue, and defense craft. Having their own Starfleet while paying for (part) of the Federation's starfleet would be very cost-inefficient. Beacuse of economies of scale, unified command, and inter-species synergy, Starfleet is likely to be more cost-efficient. But there are other reasons than economics to have a starfleet... as the Andorians show.

*nod* I tend to agree - that 'defense' ships are absorbed into Starfleet, or refitted for merchant non-military service (with exceptions - I actually imagine the Bajoran Militia doing what the Andorians did and keeping their own defenses as well as their contributions to Starfleet).

We saw some independant warp ships - they were usually merchants. So I imagine that that is where all the old ships go, to the refit pile...

The Doc

[Fortunae]

I think in every case you have to look at the member species in question and their motivations or attitudes to determine this.

Earth's various military factions and what not became the Starfleet, makes sense as they were the Capital of the Federation (and that was part of the Vulcan's reasoning for having the capital on earth.)

The Andorians have a proud military culture and even had tried their hand at colony building before contact and founding the Federation, it fits their culture to have their independent intelligence services and the ADF... if Andoria had been the captial then there would likely be no ADF...but then the Humans would probably have kept thier on Terran Defense Force or something.

The Centaurans weren't very far in thier starfaring era, and with Earth so close by, it was just easier to direct their efforts that way, they are likely to have a planetary police force, but as they are the secondary Federation Capital, Starfleet probably handles the same things on Alpha Centauri they do on Earth and Mars.

The Vulcans were already seasoned star farers, and in the beginning weren't willing to send members to serve in Star Fleet...they kept their own science vessels and they still have thier own Defense and Intelligence agencies in the TNG era according to the Vulcan book -- and this fits their Members but Seperate attitude.

The Tellarites probably had their own military fleet, but as their system became a major Starfleet Construction zone, the heavy Starfleet presence probably eroded that early on and Tellar relied on Starfleet but kept their planetary militia.

The Bolians also have a "warrior" culture, and they have thier own "FBI", Bolian Solidarity Bureau ...though they rely on Starfleet for starship defenses, I would expect that the have a proud heritage of a unified Defense force for the planet....and probably one in which regional origins politic games still occur.

The Betazoids were probably happy to turn over their defense to Starfleet, but this attitude may have changed after the Dominion War -- I wouldn't be surprised if a Betazoid Defense Force didn't spring up with a Betazed Academy of Defensive Arts focusing on military applications of psionic abilities in combination with more standard arts.

The Bajorans when they join will probably turn their Scarlet and Grey uniformed people into Starfleet people and keep their beige security people as a seperate branch that continued to handle Bajoran specific internal security matters, in effect a Bajoran Defense Force.

I believe that Long Established Independent Colonies could field their own colonial militias/planetary defense forces...but I also see in the Fragile Peace that the Federation frowns on colonies still in thier Probation Period organizing such things.

Well, just some observations

Peace

[Fortunae]

Quick addendum...

Tiburonians -- unlikely to have seperate defense forces, Star Fleet reliant.

Ktarrians -- probably not allowed to have seperate forces as part of their probationary membership period.

Axanarians -- probably would have had independent forces but were probably forbidden to have such after the Axanarian Rebellion and by the time that stigma faded they were already comfortable with just using/joining Starfleet.

Zaldans -- based on racial history unlikely to completely entrust their defense to Aliens, even the Federation, so expect a strong and supported Planetary Defense group.

Cairn -- unlikely to have any independent forces.

Grazerties -- unlikely to have any independent forces.

Benzites -- HAD independent forces (there was an episode with an exchange officer from their forces), probably gave them up to intergration upon joining Federation, probably will revive them after the Dominion War.

I think many members World Police Force would double duty as a planetary militia in the case of an invasion scenario so are probably trained at least at the Officer level in more military angled tactics.

[Diamond]

I'm in complete agreement so far, Fortunae. Here's an interesting example: Mars.

Mars is a magor Earth colony world. They're pretty secure in the center of the Federation capital. Instead of building their own defences, they probably lobbied the Federation to extend the "Earth Planetary defences" (seen in ST:TMP) to include all of the central worlds of the Sol system. Hence the "Mars defence preimeter." Perhaps the placement of the Utopia Planetia shipyards is not a co-incidence. There's lots of space in orbit, Utopia Planetia could probably have fit around Earth. Mars might have given incentives and bonuses, lobbying to have it in Mars orbit, with the long-term bonuses to their economy, prestige and *safety*. With Utopia Planetia there, it's a given Starfleet would defend Mars.

Farther flung established colonies might use a similar tactic. "Need a place for Starbase 12345? Have you considered the advantages of putting it in orbit around Generica? We'll give you all the fruit you need!" Actually, come to think of this, that sort of thing is EXACTLY what happened at "Encounter at Farpoint." The aliens were misleading Starfleet and subjugating a huge space alien so that Starfleet would choose them for "Farpoint Station". It seems they were primarily interested in economic payoff, but increased safety could be a side benefit.

[Michael Barratt]

Regarding the notion of Betazed and Benzar, you've got a great idea for some good political episodes there: the planets could both declare that they are enacting their sovereign rights to a planetary defense force, and it would be interesting to play some Starfleet Diplomats whose mission it is to reassure the peoples of said planets that Starfleet and the Federation are going to do that for them: We Will Defend You. The more radical factions of both planets could stand by their rights, and before you know it, you've got a political campaign about trying to keep two members worlds in the Federation.

Followed by some interesting compromises - what is involved in putting an entire planetary defense fleet together? Starfleet corps of engineers on loan? Planetary security forces suddenly functioning as a navy? Sounds sort of neat...

The Doc

[Diamond]

I don't think the Federation would lobby to prevent Betazed or Benzar from creating their own local planetary defence force. Sure, "We Will Defend You." But if you want to do more on your own expense and initiative, good for you. And because of economies of scale, it's bound to be less efficient than just increasing your commitment to Starfleet's materiel support, but if that's what you want I understand.

[Dan Gurden]

While the Law Enforcement agent was designed to be as generic as possible, I feel that there are a number of possible training packages that could apply. So far we have the Federation Marshalls package. I will soon work up Customs Agents and Planetary Police Force packages.

Are there any other potential packages that people might want to see worked up for this template?

[Dan Gurden]

Customs Officer Training (9 points)

As customs officer, it is often the case that this civilian authority is responsible for controlling incoming visitors to a planet, and patrolling local space in an effort to monitor and arrest contraband. Liaising with Starfleet (or other galactic force) is also required as many customs officials hold little or no juristiction outside of their home system.
Since the invention of Warp drive and transporters this job has become far more technical, as the number of ways to reach a planets surface undetected have increased.

Law (Intergalactic Law and Local Law) 0 (1) and (1), Search 1, Ships systems (Sensors and Choose Specialisation) 1 (2) and (2), Code of Honour (Uphold the Law) -2, Contact +1, Shrewd +1

[Dan Gurden]

Next up;

'Beat' Cop (9 points)

Representative of all planetary local law enforcement officers, charged with the protection and keeping the peace within a specified area. Provides both a community face to law enforcement, but also an integral part of the team.

Area Knowledge (Specify) 1 (2), Law (Local Law) 0 (1) Social Sciences (Choose Specialisation) 0 (1), Persuasion (Choose Specialisation) 1 (2), Obligation (Keep the Peace) -1, Empathy +1

NOTE;
Area Knowledge; As a skill is related to planetary knowledge, but is a highly focused specialised skill built around an intimate knowledge of a specific area, common to local 'beat' policemen and cab pilots.

[Dan Gurden]

Todays special;

SWAT/Tactical training and Forensics.

SWAT/Tactical; (9 points)
The heavier arm of a police force and the crossover between law-enforcement and military applications. Many planets simply do not have the equivalent of this force, instead using is own military for the role, or preferring other 'alternate' methods.
Other planets with strong Starfleet presences sometimes opt for the highly trained Starfleet security to fill the role.

Energy Weapon (Choose Specialisation) 1 (2), Planetary Tactics (Small Unit) 1 (2), Intimidation (Choose Specialisation) 1 (2), Reaction +1, Any 1 point disadvantage.


Forensics; (9 points)
The scientific arm of law enforcement, investigating the crime from the evidence left behind and the victims. Often seen as quiet, introverted people.

Medical Sciences (Forensics) 1 (2), Physical Sciences (Choose Specialisation) 1 (2), Search 1, Logic +1, Empathy -1



Also comining up in the same ICQ conversation with Captain Zymmer were Undercover Cops and Vice Cops... Im not 100% sure on where to go with those outside of the basic template at the moment, but will take a swing at them eventually...

Any comments? Ideas? ...Please?

[Perrryyy]

Since we've been joking about it on the Venture, Dan, what about a private investigator type? The "gumshoe for hire" that Dixon Hill would be?