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Thread: Dominion War Crimes

  1. #16
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    IMO I think that Section 31 would go deep undercover, and would allow a reporter to investigate them without worrying about reassigning him. First reassigning him would make him and his associates more suspicious, and second it is unlikely he would uncover them but he could help them discover any evidence they have failed to cover up. Heck maybe Section 31 put him on their trail to cover their own tracks!

    OK we have three war criminals and could add dozens more but the PCs will be focused on only one or two trials probably. Now how do the PCs become part of this?

    Perhaps they are to transport witnesses to the Trial of the Lady Founder, this could include Cardassians, Vorta, and even Jem'Hadar. Of course some are prisoners and some are guests, but a few need to eliminate other witnesses to protect themselves or the Lady Founder. Plus maybe a renegade Jem'Hadar vessel is coming to stop all the witnesses from reaching the trial to protect their god! And worse there is that rogue Founder on board who is trying to manipulate things to the Dominion's benefit.

    Follow up adventures may be that one of the Vorta (or any of them) asks one of the PCs to represent him in his trial! This could be where they learn of the true extent of the actions of the Vorta Commander who is being held for lesser crimes than he should be.

  2. #17
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    Somehow I can't see someone like that going too long without being mysteriously reassigned.

    If the War Crimes are public, the only things kept secret would be Section 31 details, not something the PCs are likely to be privy to, unless they have uncovered it themselves.

    I can't think of any real reason for Section 31 to get involved. It seems more likely that they would be drawn in by the defense, placing blame to Section 31 for actions. If their defense gets close to the truth, that might be enough to get a Section 31 operative in. Either to silence someone, change, destroy, or plant evidence, or even recruit one of the PCs for aid.

    So we have the head Vorta on Cardassia, the rogue Changeling, and--probably the more difficult case--the Lady Founder who no Dominion officer will testify against.

  3. #18
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    Another interesting idea would be those people NOT being considered for war crimes. How would the players re-act if the Butcher of Harlequin III (fictitious) was granted amnesty in exchange for information? Or technolgy? Or a Jem'Haddar officer for tactical or strategic information?

    To continue the WWII analogy, what if the Founder intelligence/covert operations infrastructure was suddenly made available to the surviving powers, as was the Nazi Abwehr? How better to get at those pesky Breen than through them! Would amnesty from prosecution be their reward?

    ------------------
    "You couldn't even SPELL Prime Directive!"
    "Not true. It's spelt P-H-A-S-E-R."

  4. #19
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    Is the analogy really so complete as WWII though? The Federation does not surround the Dominion. Thier control over the neighboring powers in the Gamma Quadrant is only hampered by a weakening in their fleet size. I think the main issues would involve passage through the wormhole (to which opens into what would obviously be within Dominion territory if it wasn't to begin with) and other diplomatic immunities, relations, etc.

  5. #20
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    The analogy is not complete ... that's good cause it leaves us (GMs) room for our creativity. That's bad cause it sometimes makes it difficult to get things believable .
    Anyway, AFAIR, the lady founder agreed to stay in the alpha quadrant to be judged for her crimes, thus representing the whole whatwasthenameagain ... well, the founders as a whole. Great link. I seem to remember something she said at one point or another about the analogy between the sea and the Great Link (or something), the whole and part of the whole being more or less the same thing. I do not know what she was thinking when she accepted, though, and if she had plans or if she did it honestly ...
    So, there has to be a war trial, there can be a war trial ... but it is difficult to know what effects it'll have in the end.
    About immunity, it doesn't seem very starfleetish to grant immunity in order to obtain informations and gain tactical advantages against the breens ... however, it seems very appropriate for Section31 ...
    Back to the reporters thingy ... I would not be surprised if Section31 in fact helped reporters to prove the existence of Section31. Too many peoples have heard of it anyway. Then they could help whoever sent to deal with it (maybe the reporters again, maybe the PCs) so that they destroy Section31. This would convince everyone that it has been destroyed, once and for all. Of course it will not, it will only have got rid of its weakest elements, and it will be free again to continue it's activities.

    [This message has been edited by Calcoran (edited 12-04-2000).]

  6. #21
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    So Section 31 might pick a high ranking operative to expose and make it out like it was run by one ring leader (whether or not it is) and that this is him.

    Death is quite foreign to the Founders, at least among their own. So probably the imprisonment of their Lady would be enough of a kick in the teeth to make a point. That or immortalize their hatred for the Alpha Quadrant.

    So she stands trial and meanwhile many are outraged that this is the only Founder being brought to trial, but no others will be tried. Until the rogue Founder starts mucking about of course. After being caught, he could be tried, right? Afterall, he works of his own accord.

    Now wasn't the Founder in charge on Cardassia a female? I seem to remember Kira impersonating her. I believe her name was mentioned. Or was she just the Space Traffic Controller?

    Weyoun seems like a good defense for the Lady Founder in her trial. Having a Starfleet defend for a trial would probably be due to a request by the accused. Is the Vorta, Rogue Changeling or Jem'Hadar officer likely to ask this?

    Here's an idea. For a Jem'Hadar being put on trial (for independant actions?) or maybe just as witness, to be on the edge of death. However short they live, he'd probably have white hair? I can't remember if they've portrayed a Jem'Hadar dying of age before.

    Have him want something accomplished before he dies. Standard self-fulfillment motive there. Does he want to defend his creators, condemn them, honor himself or others in an action that was misunderstood during his stint as a soldier? Or just the old desire to be declared First?

  7. #22
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    Another option to consider that would work well in Troupe-style play is to have several PCs, all are involved in the War Crimes Trial to one degree or another.

    One group as mentioned could be transporting witnesses while another group is attempting to keep the trial fair and impartial, dealing with all the Political maneuverings to garner power and influence bartering truth and justice. A third group could be an investigations team sent to certain planets or stations to investigate war crime allegations.

    One such episode could be centered around Betazed. After all it was under Dominion rule for some time. Also mentioned in another thread for an adventure set on Betazed after the war feeds directly into this campaign idea.

    That episode idea was for a group to investigate Dominion experiments on the Betazed population trying to perfect psionics either as an improvement in the Vorta or as a weapon.

    While the team investigates these experiments, beginning to uncover the horrible truth, evidence begins to disappear, clues lead to dead ends and now the team must race against a Dominion team inserted on Betazed to cover up a few "loose" ends to protect the Founder from further "damage" in her trial.

    Just a couple of thoughts.

    Regards,
    CKV.

  8. #23
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    I like the idea of the testing on Betazoids. Very parallel with the Nazis there. They created or at least fasioned the Jemmie DNA to their own use, the telepathy would definitely be something they could conceivably harness, unless there was something unusual about it that gave them difficulties.

    Looks like something a Vorta would be in charge of. Now would this have been the reason they took Betazed in the first place or is this something that a mad scientist Vorta would be doing for extra credit or on his own time?


  9. #24
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    Quote by Kirk Johnson-Weidar:
    _____________________________________________
    How about a Vorta (Name?) who commanded Jem'Hadar garrisons on Cardassia Prime. Not only did he supervise the murder of millions of Cardassians on the command of the Founder, but he also conducted medical research' before that and was feared by the Cardassians for his actions to keep them in line.
    _____________________________________________

    The Vorta was Weyoun, and was killed by Garak.


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    "Cry havoc! And let slip the dogs of war..."
    -Chang (ST VI)

    [This message has been edited by Treefrog (edited 12-08-2000).]

  10. #25
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    By the way, whatever happened to the "mental" powers the first vorta ever met by stafleet officers pretended to have (can't remember her name ... Eris maybe?) ?
    Was she a "special" ... prototype Vorta? Or was it explicitly ascertained that she used some technological device to fake those powers? If so, where/when? I could find nothing in the Trek encyclopaedia.

  11. #26
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    What crimes against humanity had the Dominion committed? And would the term humanity still stand in the 24th century since Humans are referred to as Terrans?

    [/B]
    "Humanity" is a term that was developed on Eath when "humans" were the only sentient life known. "Crimes against Humanity" mean "Crimes against all Known Sentient Life"...

    In the Star Trek era the English language may still use the term "Humanity" to refer to all thinking beings... Data says he wants to be "human", what he really means is he wants all the qualities that all thinking beings have. Even Vulcans feel emotions, they just try really hard not to let themselves be influenced by emotion.

    Note also that, strictly speaking, "Crimes against Humanity" imply that the criminal's side (as individual human beings) were harmed as well. Killing the enemy is an acceptable and implied part of war... torturing him to death is not, and doing so harms _all_ humans (in ST all thinking beings)... even soldiers in your own army who didn't even know it was happening.

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  12. #27
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    Originally posted by Calcoran:
    War crimes ... does the Federation really want to set up a war trial? What with part of it (Section31) being guilty of doing exactly what the founders are accused of doing (cf. the last season of DS9 / The Quickening) ...
    Historically, war crimes trials are usually only held by the victors. "War Criminals" of the winning side, when they are delt with at all, are usually handled as internal matters... violation of the victorious army's internal regulations.

    The Federation is idealistic enough that it probabluy would try any of it's citizens who engaged in bonafide war crimes. It would in my universe, anyway.

    [/B][/QUOTE]
    If trial there should be, then chances are that it will not be hosted by the Federation, but rather a joint action of all big powers ... do you think this would be possible? I'm pretty sure they all have done things in the war that they are not so proud of ... or rather, that they would rather not mention with outsiders.[/B][/QUOTE]

    There is also the isue of cultural differences. The Jem-hadar, culturally, don't recognize non-combattants. Are they then war criminals for killing non-combattants?




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    "I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
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  13. #28
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    Originally posted by Kirk Johnson-Weider:
    Well I think you hit one of the main problems on the head! The Jem'Hadar and Vorta would willing sacrifice themselves to protect the Founders ("The Founder knew nothing of what happened, it was completely my decision!"). They would take all the blame for any crimes and say that the Founder was ignorant of what happened! Just imagine the nightmare of defending someone who wants to get convicted in order to protect a Founder.
    The problem would be even more complex than that. In order to be tried the accused must be able to assist in his own defense, and _at_the_time_the_crime_was_committed_ the accused must have been able to distinguish right from wrong.

    Both of these would seem to be troublesome for Dominion defendants. The Founders weren't just superior officers... they were/are gods. How can following an order from god be wrong? It isn't up to mortals to question the morality of Diety. I would argue that a Jem-hadar or vorta was incapable of distinguishing right from wrong as most Federation races understand the concept.

    As for the defendant _trying_ to be conviced to save a Founder... clearly that individual is incapable of assisting in his own defense.


    ------------------
    "I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
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  14. #29
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    For purposes of war crimes trials, the entire Jem'Hadar species would likely be ruled mentally incompetent. They were genetically engineered specifically to fight for the Founders and this was reinforced by the Ketracel White to which they were addicted. The only known Jem'Hadar to rebel were led by an Alpha who had a mutation which made him resistant to the addiction.

    In the case of the Vorta, it's a bit more complex. They were considerably more intelligent than the Jem'Hadar and had considerably more independance of thought. The Weyoun who attempted to defect did so under his own impetus. Many of the same arguments could be made for the Vorta as the Jem'Hadar, but there seems to be a clear difference in their ability to act independantly. In the case of Vorta accused of war crimes, it would likely be necessary to hold individual competency hearings.

    As for the Founders, the Great Link is a gestalt entity. In a very real sense, there are no individual Founders, just bits which are "budded off" temporarily. When Odo linked with the Female Founder in What You Leave Behind, she experienced all he knew about the Alpha Quadrant humanoids, from his point of view. When Odo stated that she would stand trial willingly and face the punishment to be meted out, he was stating a fact, since he'd just been her. When he went back to the Great Link, it was to bring the knowledge of what had happened both to the entire Link. What I envision happening (in my game, anyway) is that some punishment would be found for the Female Founder which would, when she eventually rejoined the Great Link, become a part of the collective experience of the entire Link. Her return would have to be virtually guaranteed in order for the Great Link to experience the punishment.

  15. #30
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    Treefrog, yes Weyoun was responsible for conducting the Founders orders, but my point was that there would certainly be other Vorta carrying out the specific orders. Certainly among these ranks of Vorta would be someone who supervised garrisons on Cardassia and could have committed war crimes. The beauty of the TV series is that they are often amazingly narrow in what we see so we shouldn't assume that Weyoun handled every aspect (not even 1% in reality) of the Dominion's side in the war.

    As for the immunity issue I agree that Starfleet would not be keen on the idea, but what about an admiral who wanted to take actions to protect the UFP. While Section 31 is good to have around there have been episodes and movies about Admirals, Captains and so on doing morally wrong things for what they perceive to be the right reasons. Maybe one of these characters is in charge of the criminal investigations and manipulates things and the PCs may have to challenge him.

    I also like the idea of the Dominion doing experimentations on the Betazoids, and the idea that the Dominion would be working to cover things up. Though my guess is that maybe this would be the work of more fanatical elements of the Dominion. Keep in mind with the Founders ill from some unknown disease there were probably quite a few Vorta who decided to do things above and beyond the call of duty to preserve the Dominion.

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