this says it all ::sob::

[Trinity Zeldis]

http://pvponline.com/archive.php3?archive=20000915

[ghosty]

Trek as we knew died a long time ago. Its a new Trek now we just have to live with it I guess.

[Commodore 2]

It sure looks that way......

[Trinity Zeldis]

Where have all the Cap. Kirks gone
Long time 'xploring
Where have all the Cap. Kirks gone
Long time ago
Morphed to Janeways everyone
When will they ever learn?
When will they eeever learn?

Where have all the Vulcans gone
Long time debating
Where have all the Vulcans gone
Long time ago
Morphed to Humans everyone
When will they ever learn?
When will they eeever learn?

Where have all the Phasers gone?
Long time stunning
Where have all the Phasers gone?
Long time ago
PC'd to pretty lights
When will they ever learn?
When will they eeever learn?

Where have all the Trek fans gone
Long time supporting
Where have all the Trek fans gone
Long time ago
Sold out by B&B
When will they ever learn?
When will we eeever learn?

[Lt.Khrys Antos]

So true...so very true...

[Joe Dizzy]

Welcome to Whinesville. Population: YOU!

IOW... grow up!

[Vaebn]

If only they could merge the CGI effects of Voyager with the excellent scripts from TOS. Oh well, one can dream....

[C5]

Could somebody please shoot me down, or calmly explain to me why TOS would be so superior to TNG (please notice I'm not talking about DS9 and VOY, nor Ent), apart from being The First ?

[ghosty]

For the most part its not TNG we're moaning about...TNG was IMHO superior to TOS...but with DS9 some of the spirit of Trek was lost and well lets not get started on VOY.

[Dan Stack]

See, this is how it gets funny. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. I loved most of TOS and put it as my favorite. (Of course, I'm a pre-TNG Trekkie...)

I enjoyed TNG for the most part, but lost interest in it towards the end. Similarly, I wasn't all that interested in DS9 when it started but it eventually became my favorite of the modern Treks.

Voyager I didn't like at all.

Enterprise is way too early to tell. Early indications are good, but I had a good feeling about Voyager which rapidly became my least favorite Trek.

I pass no judgement on those who disagree with my opinions, as they are just that.

My strongest opinion is that a big mistake was made by the Trek-world in making two series at once (TNG/DS9 and DS9/Voyager). It has worked for other shows (Law & Order comes to mind, but I do worry they may be stretching it too thin with three shows), but Star Trek is such a niche show to begin with that I don't think it is an audience which you wish to spread out.

[prophetsteve]

You are right Dan, everyone has their likes and dislikes. I liked all of trek but for different reasons.

I loved TOS for the characters and the stories; never really liked the sets or props (although I admit the old Constitution class is still really cool).

I loved the TOSMovies for the characters and the special effects, as well as a lot of the ambiance (I still say the STII+ uniforms were the best uniforms ever).

I loved TNG for some of the characters (Data, Worf, Riker, LaForge, and even Picard) and alot of the Ambiance - the tech and sets I really enjoyed, especially near the end of its run (the stuff at the beginning wasn't all that hot).

I loved DS9 for its grittiness (yet still being Trek), its characters (Odo, Kira, Bashir, Garek, and Sisko mainly...and Worf later on), and a lot of its tech and ambiance.

I loved...well liked Voyager mostly for Ambiance (the Voyager sets and cgi were cool).

I am loving Enterprise currently for the sets (ignoring their continuity issues), the cgi, and maybe the characters (too soon to tell).

The truth be told I would rather watch the more modern shows cause I like eye candy, but one shouldn't just dismiss the old stuff. When TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise change the world or television as much as TOS did, then I'll be impressed.

And although a new fan base may have taken over Trek, remember it was the original TOS fans that made TNG possible. While that doesn't mean TOS fans should dictate new trek, it does mean that the makers of new trek should at least keep us "old farts" in mind.

There are at least doing that in Enterprise...for now.

[Dan Stack]

I was indoctrinated into Star Trek at a very young age... Go back to the early 1970's... Picture a house in Liverpool, New York, just outside of Syracuse. A mother is making dinner and plopping her son in front of the tv so she has a few moments peace with which to make dinner. Her son, let us call him Dan, likes the "show with the the guy with the funny ears".

Of course it took him a very long time to realize that those were uniforms, not that Kirk liked gold shirts and Spock liked blue ones...

[Thorn]

Originally posted by Dan Stack
I was indoctrinated into Star Trek at a very young age... Go back to the early 1970's... Picture a house in Liverpool, New York, just outside of Syracuse. A mother is making dinner and plopping her son in front of the tv so she has a few moments peace with which to make dinner. Her son, let us call him Dan, likes the "show with the the guy with the funny ears".

Of course it took him a very long time to realize that those were uniforms, not that Kirk liked gold shirts and Spock liked blue ones...

same story different place, and back then the sets were state of the art and event held up to S1999 and BSG, it wasn't shot down until SW and all 3 came much later.

Gray hair just means we have had a little more time to ponder the way it was and compare it to the way it is.

ps. SW is easy, BSG is still around on Sci-Fi so should not be to hard to figure, but S1999 how many know what that is or better yet have seen it?

[Modem]

Now Thorn, I remember S1999 (Moon get blown out of orbit, has a station on it, and nobody evacs from it...that boys and girls IS science fiction ).
The characters in it were good and varied (the strong, smart, and well-meaning commander, the compassionate, knowledgable nurse, and so on), but so was BSG(the 'stong leader, trying to make Dad, the Supreme Commander proud', the 'hot-shot gambler, both in the fray and out, and so on)...well, 'til they 'found earth', then things 'went Voyager' on us (i.e.: not a whole lotta continuity/character/story development, the 'new characters' left me going "who?", and the 'old characters' had me going "why the hell did he do that...?")

Hmmm...do you think sometimes the writers/creator just 'run out of steam', and rather say "we're tapped", push ahead any way, despite having an 'inferior product/show'?

[REG]

Enterprise is way too early to tell. Early indications are good, but I had a good feeling about Voyager which rapidly became my least favorite Trek.

Is it about the time Brannon Braga took over from season 4 and on? If so, then you know who to blame. IMHO, Braga was ill-suited for producing the show that did well by his predecessors (Jeri Taylor and Michael Piller).

Since ENT is Braga's own work from scratch, he better do good. He also better present the Earth-Romulan war arc development five seasons from now.

Then again, Borg was also his creation, and he mangled up in VOY. His past history is going to haunt him and his credibility until he expires, my friend.