To those who don't seem to like ENTERPRISE, a rant

[The Highlander]

Post accidently blown away by a fat-fingered Administrator (see below).

[Don Mappin]

Since when do I have to give a reason? It’s my opinion and I don’t have to justify it. Just like you don’t have to defend why you like ENTERPRISE.

Sure, I can give you a whole litany of reasons of why I don’t like ENTERPRISE. I can even give you a few bits about what I do like about ENTERPRISE, but here’s the beauty of the whole thing: I don’t have to.

You like it? Great! Fine! Wonderful! Watch with the blessing of the Great Bird.

Just don’t come on here and start shouting and complaining on how we all need to “lighten up,” and “sit back and enjoy it” simply because it fits your definition of entertaining and engaging science fiction with the trappings of Star Trek.

(Conversely the naysayers have been just as bad, to which I can respond I laid off ENTERPRISE several months ago.)

Edit: I accidently screwed up Highlander's earlier post (that I had quoted) by hitting the wrong button. The dangers of having absolute power on a new board.

[Caretaker]

Well, I don't agree with you that it's NOT Trek, Don, but I respect your opinion and your right to that opinion.

For those who like Enterprise, fine.

For those who don't like Enterprise, fine, too.

Let's move on. Anyone care to discuss Decipher Trek?

[Klingermann]

Well I for one think this entire argument is completely worthless. If you hate Enterprise and think it's not very much like the Star Trek you like, for one you're right and secondly you are entitled to believe that 100%. If you love the show and think it's the best new sci-fi or Star Trek show you have ever seen you're 100% entitled to believe that too. Arguing this will not change anyone's mind and it's as simple as that.

I personally have many gripes with the show but also some things I like. It's not a great show thus far, but it's ok and to answer the ongoing debate about why no 'Star Trek' in the title? That's easy! Trekkers know it's supposed to be Star Trek and they don't need it and secondly it's because a Star Trek show is viewed by the general public as being for geeks. By not having Star Trek in the title they hope to attract more non-geeks to the series and thusly, get some ratings.

Make no mistake about it, this show is an attempt to bring the Trek universe into the mainstream a bit more. As an anime fan I know it when I see it and this is one of those type deals. Whether it's good or bad.. Who knows?

[REG]

All right. I won't ask again, Don.

With regards to the ENTERPRISE, from now on the only time you'll hear from me is when an episode is worthy of talk ... whether it is very good or very bad. And knowing Braga, just expect me to say many bad things, with only a few praises.

So far, there is nothing bad to say ... with the exception of the Earth-Q'onoS travel time at warp 4+.

[The Highlander]

Originally posted by Don Mappin
Since when do I have to give a reason? It’s my opinion and I don’t have to justify it. Just like you don’t have to defend why you like ENTERPRISE.

Sure, I can give you a whole litany of reasons of why I don’t like ENTERPRISE. I can even give you a few bits about what I do like about ENTERPRISE, but here’s the beauty of the whole thing: I don’t have to.

You like it? Great! Fine! Wonderful! Watch with the blessing of the Great Bird.

Just don’t come on here and start shouting and complaining on how we all need to “lighten up,” and “sit back and enjoy it” simply because it fits your definition of entertaining and engaging science fiction with the trappings of Star Trek.

(Conversely the naysayers have been just as bad, to which I can respond I laid off ENTERPRISE several months ago.)

Edit: I accidently screwed up Highlander's earlier post (that I had quoted) by hitting the wrong button. The dangers of having absolute power on a new board.

Want me to defend myself ? Hey, bubba, not a problem.

I like ENTERPRISE because I always felt there should have been more done on the early history of the TREK universe. For the longest time, all we knew was that the first captain of NCC-1701 was April. But we never knew of what came before.

I like the look of the ship.

So there's no mention of Starfleet. It hasn't been created.

And now with ENTERPRISE, we're getting an idea. And I like that.

We're starting to see what may have been in early STARFLEET history texts, and learn of what came before Kirk was even thought of.

It's way too early, Don, to be just dismissing this show because it doesn't "fit" some preconceived notions of what a TREK series should be.

I'm really not flaming the naysayers -- all I'm asking for is some coherent reasons why some have an apparent problem with a series that I, for one of many, feel has its place right alongside TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager.

Nor am I "shouting and complaining". If I came off as such, mea culpa.

I just hate seeing something dismissed as "not worthy" before it fully has a chance to prove itself.

[Diamond_Spear]

Enterprise = Good
Voyager = BAD

Enterprise = Different kind of Trek
Voyager = Different kind of awful

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by The Highlander

Want me to defend myself ?

No, I don't care. I never asked you to.

Hey, bubba, not a problem.

It’s Don. Do I get to come up with a cute name for you too?

It's way too early, Don, to be just dismissing this show because it doesn't "fit" some preconceived notions of what a TREK series should be.

No, it’s not too early for me to say I don’t like it. What is with your insistence to tell me what I can and can not like?

Nor am I "shouting and complaining".

Humm, okay. Let me flip back a page:
“To those who don't seem to like ENTERPRISE, a rant”
“LIGHTEN UP, FOLKS! IT'S STILL TREK !!” (emphasis yours)
“What a lot of folks need to do is loosen their collars, put down their ST Encyclopedias” (nice jab)
“ IT'S STAR TREK !!” (nope, no yelling going on here)
“Just sit back and enjoy it.” (telling us what to do again)

I just hate seeing something dismissed as "not worthy" before it fully has a chance to prove itself.

I just hate being told what to think/enjoy/do.

[The Highlander]

Originally posted by Don Mappin


It’s Don. Do I get to come up with a cute name for you too?



No, it’s not too early for me to say I don’t like it. What is with your insistence to tell me what I can and can not like?

Humm, okay. Let me flip back a page:
“To those who don't seem to like ENTERPRISE, a rant”
“LIGHTEN UP, FOLKS! IT'S STILL TREK !!” (emphasis yours)
“What a lot of folks need to do is loosen their collars, put down their ST Encyclopedias” (nice jab)
“ IT'S STAR TREK !!” (nope, no yelling going on here)
“Just sit back and enjoy it.” (telling us what to do again)

I just hate being told what to think/enjoy/do.

[I]

a. Don, "bubba" is just a phrase I use with everyone I talk to at times, okay? It's the same as using "brother", "dude", chum", "friend" -- okay?

b. Nothing personal, for pete's sake. I'm just voicing an opinion, okay?

c. Is emphasizing yelling? New one on me.

d. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do . . . c'mon . . . I'm just someone speaking out and voicing an opinion. You and others say you don't like it, all I'm trying to do is get some intellectual debate going. That's all, nothing more.

Can we just lower the shields and take the weapons offline here? I'm not trying to attack you, Don.

[The Highlander]

Let me try to clear some things up here before this all gets too far gone. . .


I'm not -- repeat, NOT -- trying to attack any naysayers of ENTERPRISE.

All I am trying to do is understand what exactly bugs you about it. All I'm getting in the way of answers is "It's not like Roddenberry's work", "it's tampering with canon", "it's nothing but sci-fi dressed like Trek", and so on.

I'm sorry, but that's not enough.

You think I'm nuts for saying so?

That's fine -- maybe I am.

But when someone says "I don't like [ ]" and leaves it at that, I want to know why. That's all. An explanation.

If something on there offends you, that's one thing.

If you were expecting another series, that's another.

But to just say "It's not like the others. . .", well, that makes me want to ask why.

Bad habit. My apologies.

If anyone in this thread felt attacked by my "rant", I offer my sincerest apology as well. I did not mean any offense. Like I said earlier, I was just trying to get a debate going.

There. Done.

(Maybe, Don, it would be better if we just closed this off before things get too crazed, okay?)

[Phantom]

Originally posted by The Highlander

(Maybe, Don, it would be better if we just closed this off before things get too crazed, okay?)

I agree. This is turning into a shooting war very rapidly. Let's not forget we are all friends here, ok. Enterprise is not worth the ulcers, we all have our opinions and sometimes we stress them a little harder then we intend.

[Klingermann]

Well, I for one don't think the thread should be closed just because there has been some "misunderstandings" going on. I mean if you wanted some kind of intellectual debate I would think that closing the thread would put an end to that. Don doesn't like being told what to do, so don't say something like "Enjoy the show" or some other command sounding phrase and that's not an issue. I think we can all agree that none of us like to be pushed around in a debate and that's kind of how you came off in your first post so try to avoid that. At the same time though I also think that Don (god love him for having the board here for us) took it a bit too personally but it may be a pet peeve of his.

Anyway, now that the ground rules are established let's start a debate!

You want people to give in depth explanations for why they dislike the show, well I say why not get the ball rolling on that by telling everyone in-depth why you like it. Seems fair to me and if you already have I didn't notice it so I'm sorry. Again I am not an Enterprise hater but then again nor do I love it as much as say DS9, TOS, or TNG. I guess I'm neutral on the issue so like I said try making your point(s) and let the intelligent discussion begin!

[The Kurgan]

It's funny, but if you think about it, it ends the argument much quicker and allows us to talk about the good things in the show if you guys just accept the idea that we're not crazy for saying Enterprise isn't Trek. It isn't, plain and simple. It is a new show that took a few elements and names from an existing franchise. Y'know what? I like it! I actually like the show. As Trek? Nope. For it to be Trek it would have to be set in the same universe, along with previous canon and history, and it's not. BUT, if I just look at it as a standalone show it's actually pretty durn good. Try this, which is sorta what I do: There was Trek, and lo it was good. Then a second burst of light emerged from the ether and there was the parallel Federation franchise that remained in the same time period whereas mainstream Trek continued to subsequent 'generations'. Same origin universe and property but different licenses and alternate timelines/events (and books, games, etc.) So, take Enterprise and make it a new, third branch, and bingo! we've got the holy trinity of Trek variations! Whoohoo! I will force myself to be hopeful and not lose hope for as long as I can keep my walker sliding forward. Why? For what? For my one true Trek dream: Captain April! I will die a happy man if somewhere, somehow, somewhen before I croak somebody does the April stories and does 'em right (movies/tv). I wanna see good acting, original stories, adherance to canon without insulting the viewers by calling them geeks (and not giving them reason to complain). Gloriosky, what a grand day that'll be. In the meantime I can watch Enterprise and have a little fun in the process so long as I take it on it's own merits and not try to label it as part of the Trek I luv.

[Thundergod]

Don, do you remember the post I made about a year or so ago. The one about homosexuals and thier lack of appearence in the series. I wont say what I said then (lord knows that thread was locked down quick) But I think Im going to stop posting my opinions on this damned board. Everytime I do it ends up in a big angry bash.
And one minor note...Highlander, I think it was you...It takes some big anti-matter pods to call Don 'Bubba'.

OH and for the Enterprise series to be considered Star Trek it has to do two things. Be called Star Trek, and talk of the brighter future of humanity. Thats What the great bird wanted, thats what Sternbach wanted, and thats what it has always been about. Even Andromeda is more Trekish than Enterprise.

I can not imagine Picard, Kirk, Sisko, Janeway, Calhoon, Crunch, or any honored and earned captain telling a forgien adminstrator as part of an ambassadorial attache..."you don't know how much restraint I'm showing by not knocking you on your ass."

I never seem to win any popularity polls in here, but I think that is the point of Trek. The brighter future of humanity.

[The Highlander]

Originally posted by The Kurgan
It's funny, but if you think about it, it ends the argument much quicker and allows us to talk about the good things in the show if you guys just accept the idea that we're not crazy for saying Enterprise isn't Trek. It isn't, plain and simple. It is a new show that took a few elements and names from an existing franchise. Y'know what? I like it! I actually like the show. As Trek? Nope. For it to be Trek it would have to be set in the same universe, along with previous canon and history, and it's not.

Let me ask this, just out of honest curiosity --

Would ENTERPRISE be more acceptable if it either took place, say 10 years after DS9 or was the saga of Capt. April?


Y'see, I just can't see what the problem with adherance to canon. Why couldn't there be stories of what came before Capt. ApriL?

I'm not asking some of these questions to make problems here, friends. I honestly don't see what the problem is some have with this new show.

Just because it has no elements from the prior shows and is set before any of them doesn't make them Trek?

This is what I don't seem to be able to fathom. I'm sorry if I come across as clueless, but some of this reasoning just doesn't seem to make sense...