Ent. Episode 6 "The Andorian Incident"

[Captain Zymmer]

Originally posted by Phantom
It has always been established that the Andorians are supurb hand-to-hand fighters. These guys were just the thugs of the week.

Where was this established Phantom?

[Azar Kel]

This is 200 years before TNG 200 Years I say! That is a long friggin' time and a lot can happen in 200 years. In 200 years Americans went from slaughtering native americans to attempting to police the world for human rights....thats a big change...

[Phantom]

Originally posted by Captain Zymmer

Where was this established Phantom?

-"Journey to Babel"
-there is an episode of Voy where Chakotay says he "feels like he's gone 10 rounds with an Andorian"
-An Andorian was one of the fighters in "The Gamesters of Triskilion"
-Not to mention a "violent and passionate people" are usually good with their hands in a fight.

I know there are others, but can't think of them right now.

[prophetsteve]

I agree, Azar Kel , that things can change. I think people are thinking that Andorians should have been shown in a more positive light. I admit they were at times a little carboard-class evil, but by the end I had a better understanding where they come from.

I look at the Klingons of TOS - except for John Calicos portrayl, mostly Klingons were in the TV series and movies a bunch on conquering megalomaniacal thugs. It really wasn't until STIII, TNG, and STVI that they were retconned into the noble warrior.

I think that right now Andorians are in their "TOS" phase. No doubt in the years to come, the series will flesh out their culture and history more. I hope.

Thundergod, you hit the nail on the head with the Vulcans/Romulans comment. That simple statement summed up my feelings. Vulcans aren't Romulans although they share common ancestry. The attempt to have a "Rommie" like race in Enterprise is nice but keep away from the established races.

When I look at the future forming of the Federation I don't see problems with the Andorians joining, I see a problem with anyone puting up with the the Vulcan's crap.

It hasn't even been one season yet and I wanna orbital bombard the Vulcan homeworld

[Dan Stack]

Had a night to sleep on my thoughts of the episode.

Overall, I have enjoyed "Enterprise" but been a tad disappointed in the writing, wanting something more. Despite me being a Trekkie most of my life (all my mom's fault, plopping the toddler Dan in front of the TV for Star Trek while she made dinner...), I've really had no "continuity issues". I suppose that comes from many blows to my "personal continuity", like discovering the classic Trek didn't take place in 2207 like FASA-Trek asserted... Or that the Romulan Wars weren't between the Federation and Romulans (a common assumption before TNG...) So I've been able to watch "Enterprise" without getting too hung up on "canon" or "continuity". The blows to "canon" I've seen on the show seem to actually be blows to long-standing "assumptions", like the date of First Contact with the Klingons.

That said, what about last night's episode? I really enjoyed it. I have no problem with the portrayal of the Vulcans. To be honest, they seemed to me to be less than fully trusted at the time of TOS. Think about "Balance of Terror" - look how fast suspicion fell on Mr. Spock once their appearance was revealed. Would there have been that much suspicion if they looked human?

In some ways, I suspect humans of the 22nd century feel like a 20th or 21st century developing country when faced with countries like America or the U.K. - a perception of a smug superiority. While the more developed countries don't feel that way, they feel more like "Look, why don't you trust us? We've been through this before." And they are worried about these primitives - "We've got to keep an eye on them - they are one revolution away from a government which will turn on us". Mistrust on both sides, and in both cases partially justified. Yet for a true alliance to form (i.e. the Federation) that mistrust will have to be put aside. And even by TOS that mistrust is still there a little - the Federation of TOS is a heck of a lot less united than that of TNG.

And what I see this episode illustrating is that mistrust. The Andorians are a violent, emotional people. The Vulcans are a pacifist, logical people. Of course they don't trust each other. The Vulcans probably feel perfectly justified keeping an eye on them. And the Andorians were right to suspect the Vulcans of snooping. By the time of last night's episode they were super-frustrated, knowing the Vulcans were up to something but unable to prove it. This no doubt brought out the worst in them. How would America react if it "knew" a certain Mosque in the Germany were hiding an anthrax factory but unable to prove it, despite repeated searches?

I'm going to watch the episode again - I don't know if the Vulcans ever technically lied about the snooping equipment - they kept claiming the monastery did not have any high-technology - but they could easily have, in Clinton/Obi-Wan fashion been telling the truth from "a certain point of view". "You said there were no sensors in the monastery!" "Well, duh, that surveillance equipment is not part of the monastery".

In any case, the actual strucure of the episode "felt" right to. It had a nice amount of action but not senseless violence. It had the crew of Enterprise acting intelligently. It had Vulcans and Andorians acting in a way which, while I might not "approve" of, I certainly understand. I really enjoyed the music - a nice hint of an eastern, perhaps Tibetan, feel to it. I also liked the look of the sets. The catacombs were neat and felt less like "random caves" and more like the rarely-used passages that they were. A nice amount of misdirection - since Vulcans are "good-guys" I was open to the possibility they were snooping but didn't think they were. I though the Sacred Chamber held Katras - indeed, when I saw the vases and urns in there I thought my suspicions were confirmed.

I also liked the signs of Archer taking what could have been a disastrous First Contact and instead planting the seeds of friendship between the Andorians and Terrans. An instance of the two powers speaking together will likely have quite a bit of leverage against the Vulcans diplomatically, making them harder to dismiss out of hand. And if the Romulan War breaks out in a few seasons, I can see the Andorians coming to the aid of Earth, further sowing the seeds for the Federation.

By way of comparison, Dan's episode ratings, on a A-F grading system. (Subject to change on his personal whims... )
Broken Bow: B+
Fight or Flight: B-
Strange New World: C+
Unexpected: C
Terra Nova: B-
Andorian Incident: A

[mactavish]

I've tried hard not to like <i>Enterprise</i>, but have been unable to do so.

I thought that "The Andorian Incident" was excellent - quite possibly the best episode so far.

I also liked the fact that the Vulcans are shown to be sneaky, underhanded, and filled with a sense of superiority regarding other less technologically-adept races. I REALLY like that. I don't think that that is a Romulan trait at all. The Vulcans ARE technologically superior and (in their own eyes) morally superior as well. I get the feeling that, as time goes on, the Vulcans will come around when faced with the "illogial, emotional, yet surprisingly effective behavior" of humanity and the other core UFP founding races.

Sure, I thought the episode was somewhat predictable (like the Vulcans would have a problem hiding something like that from an "inferior" race!), but I thought that the Andorian characterization was exceptional, particularly by Jeffrey Combs.

The Andorians were certainly a bit too Klingonesque for my tastes, but I thought that it all played out quite well.

I give this episode an A-.

mactavish out.

[Captain Blake]

Phantom,

Archer and Trip ambush one of them in the control room. It took both of them to hold him down, and it wasn't looking good for them, which is why I was hoping T'pol would get to the gun.

Trip grabs the Andorian in the Prison Room, and gets shrugged off like he was a gnat. Archer tried his damnedest to stop the guy, and was getting thrown around like a rag doll. Good thing Reed was there with his gun.

Compare this to the Vulcan guy in the end. Archer one punches him.

I think the Andorians gave a good accounting of themselves.

My feeling on the "Vulcans Lied" thing is that most of the monks probably didn't know what was going on. There was only the one younger "monk" who had any idea about what's going on.

So, the monks themselves weren't lying about it. The young Vulcan never said there wasn't anything. It was a lie of omission.

Truely, it's not our TOS Vulcans. Like Klingons aren't the TOS Klingons, and the Romulans aren't the TOS Romulans.

Oh, as a tactical note, why didn't Reed and the security guys shoot out through the holes, then trigger the explosives. Heck a couple of those "Stun Grenades" mensioned in last weeks episode could have really turned the tide.

I know, I know, then the Andorians couldn't have ran down into the catacombs, and led Archer to the Secret Base. Sigh.

But, still, for once, I wish the Security Chief actually used good tactics. I know, I know, none of them ever do.

Ah well.

Alex

[Thundergod]

Azar Kel.
Think of the leopards spots.

Yeah we took out Jeronimo...We wanted his land.

Now there is no more free land to claim, so we need to watch what land is left. Make sure we can put up a Mickey D's.
So we police teritories that don't belong to us.

Do you think the displaced Native amrecan children who watched their parents murdured by US cailvary feel more human rights than the two Vietnamese children who watch "Bravo two" come and burn their village. (Bravo two is a fictional company for you old timers who might have actually been in Nam)

Of course "they" blew up the twin towers.
And we aren't policing them yet.

Whew, lucky for the afghananistany kids. (they are really busy policing themselves for Human Rights)

Herb cane

[calguard66]

Personally I think that it is human pheromones that they are trying to avoid. Perhaps they have an enhanced effect on Vulcan females... or maybe I just have a thing for ice women.

Andorians are stated in both the FASA history and LUG History to have had an "Andorian Star Empire" with several colonies at the time of first contact with Earth.

Of all the episodes so far this is my favorite... but again, that may be because I've always had a thing for Andorians. I think their moving antenne were especially well done.

But of all six eps so far I think this was the most reasonable and consistant. I hope that in future eps we have more on Andorians and begin to flesh them out as a people.

[Captain Zymmer]

Originally posted by Phantom
-"Journey to Babel"
-there is an episode of Voy where Chakotay says he "feels like he's gone 10 rounds with an Andorian"
-An Andorian was one of the fighters in "The Gamesters of Triskilion"
-Not to mention a "violent and passionate people" are usually good with their hands in a fight.

I know there are others, but can't think of them right now.

Phantom they never say Andorians are skilled in Hand-to-Hand, they simply make reference to the fact that they like to fight (or are used to fight) and are tough.

I am Irish, my people have a reputatin for bar fighting, we do not have a reputation for being skilled hand-to-hand combatants. You see the difference?

[Salinger]

Originally posted by Phantom


-"Journey to Babel"
-there is an episode of Voy where Chakotay says he "feels like he's gone 10 rounds with an Andorian"
-An Andorian was one of the fighters in "The Gamesters of Triskilion"
-Not to mention a "violent and passionate people" are usually good with their hands in a fight.

"Journey to Babel?" What indications from that episode indicate that the Andorians are superior martial artists? If you are referring to the fight between Kirk and the "Andorian," that's the same Andorian that wasn't an Andorian. And, besides, if that were really an Andorian, Kirk took the guy out with his ass!

Going ten rounds with an Andorian isn't exactly an indicator that they're superior hand-to-hand fighters. They may just punch hard.

Uhura was also a combatant in "Gamesters."

And, "violent and passionate" doesn't necessarily mean they're all good in hand-to-hand combat.

I think to say because a couple Andorians have been shown or mentioned to be good in hand-to-hand combat indicates that all Andorians are superior martial artists is an over-generalization and definitely goes to making Andorians not only a cardboard species, but a cookie-cutter species.

Quack!

[qerlin]

Originally posted by Azar Kel
This is 200 years before TNG 200 Years I say! That is a long friggin' time and a lot can happen in 200 years. In 200 years Americans went from slaughtering native americans to attempting to police the world for human rights....thats a big change...

Problem seems to be that Trek fans are forgetting that the universe is not static. Well...the Trek one tends to be. Everything always winds up being status quo.

I liked this episode; I liked the Andorians -- they fit closely with what I would have pictured, since they're only just ore civilized now (going with the S John Ross sourcebook); and overall I've liked the series...and I really expected it to suck.

As for the Vulcans: I always figured they would be arrogant pukes. This is before they had to learn to work with other people. Shows they and the Rommies aren't that different under the ideological claptrap. I like that a lot.

[Phantom]

Ok, don't know about FASA Andorians, but LUG stated that the Andorians colonized only 8 systems, one of which they abandoned because of the disappearance of the original colony. Seven colony systems constitues an Empire? Only seven planets are listed as inhabited. Empire, sorry don't see it.

The scene in "Journey to Babel" where Kirk is attacked...He didn't seem too surprised that he was getting a bit thrashed by the Andorian (and before someone mentions it I know that the Andorian was an Orion, however the characters didn't). I realize this might be an assumption, but it was that scene gave me the interest in the Andorians that I have.

I think the Andorian combatant showed "a little more skill" then Uhura.

Chalk it up to "we agree to disagree." I much prefer what was done with the Andorians in DS9 (Avatar), don't agree 100% but the writer who did the Avatar books showed a little more deductive skills and imagination in the development of her Andorian then the writers of Ent showed in last nights ep. Why not go from where she ended...Oh, forgot Para. doesn't consider the novels to be canon, even when a good idea comes and slaps them in the face.

[Dan Stack]

Heck, nations have called themselves Empires with far less cause... Japan considered itself an Empire long before it left its islands.

[Ineti]

Originally posted by Phantom
Ok, don't know about FASA Andorians, but LUG stated that the Andorians colonized only 8 systems, one of which they abandoned because of the disappearance of the original colony. Seven colony systems constitues an Empire? Only seven planets are listed as inhabited. Empire, sorry don't see it.

Not to nitpick, but if a political entity wants to call itself an "empire" or a "kingdom" or whatever, who's to stop them? It's not like there are any hard and fast rules for what does and does not constitute an empire.

If I said I was the emperor of my office, and that the boundaries of my office comprised my empire, what would be the problem with that? Say another person called their office their "kingdom." Then, say the two of us established a protocol that stated in part that we would respect each other and refer to each other by the titles we establish for ourselves. If a third party (let's call them the Hegemony) joined our little federation (for lack of a better term), we'd call them whatever they wanted to be called, out of respect.

To sum up my rambling, if the Andorians want to call their territory an Empire, let 'em.