Enterprise Episode 6 (Spoilers)

[Dan Stack]

The Encyclopedia has its own fair amount of speculation - dates of refit for the original Enterprise, the date of first contact with the Klingon Empire, etc. It uses the shows as its primary source of info, but it does make up things here and there.

[Perrryyy]

Ok. Point taken.
Thx for clarifying.

[Phantom]

That is kind of my point. Why not use it as canon? Para. controls the merchandising of the franchise, and I would think that the writers of the novels and gaming books would be more then happy to allow a trek series to use thier info. Ok, I am assuming that last point...I can only go on what I would do if approached.

Given all the info in the RPG, tech manuals, encyclopedias, novels and all the other sources we use, with all that info out there why not use it? Sure there is very little info on such races as the Axanari, Andorians and Tellerites use what you have mixed with a little common sense and a lot of imagination to come up with something interesting, is it so wrong in going with good "established" background instead of coming up with a "dogs breakfast" like most of the shows evidence (talking Ent. here.) That is all I'm asking.

And another point how has Ent. fixed any of the so called problems Voyager caused, and what were these problems? Other then some poorly done scripts (something I think Ent suffers from as well on a larger scale.) I don't remember any glaring problems with Trek Universal Canon or Continuity being broken in Voyager. Unless of course you happen to notice they moved stellar cartography from Deck 8 Section 13 to Deck 13 Section 8...And if you have noticed this all I have to say is...Get out more. I have heard that the main purpose for Ent was to erase these massive problems caused by Voyager, and if there are any "real" failures of Canon, why are the people who made such greivous errors at the helm of the show that is supposed to clear them up?

Everytime I watch Ent. I think why is this on? It doesn't have the Trek feel, over 30 years of Trek history is being blown away and the people in charge don't even think of it as Trek, proven by the removal of Star Trek from the title. Thus far the first season of B5 was better quality. IMHO of course.

Anyway forgive the lack of Andorian subject matter...That horse is dead as far as I am concerned.

[Diamond]

Man, you're really reaching now.

"And if you have noticed this [Voyager problem] all I have to say is...Get out more" Um, as opposed to manufacturing non-existant problems in Enterprise? Get out more

"over 30 years of Trek history is being blown away" Nope. As shown in previous posts, they're being suprisingly scrupulous in following cannon as displayed on screen.

"all that info out there why not use it?" Ahh, now here is the rub. Simple answer: It would be a herculean, difficult job for little gain. Worse, it would be impossible. There are a LOT of novels out there. Fact is, many of them contradict each other. If they went through them all and picked what they liked, you'd snipe at them for choosing differently than you. Since Paramount's always said that novels are not cannon, they're being consistent.

Fact is, they've kept to continuity as it's been shown on the screen. They didn't go further. But it's enough for me.

[Salinger]

Originally posted by Phantom
That is kind of my point. Why not use it as canon? Para. controls the merchandising of the franchise, and I would think that the writers of the novels and gaming books would be more then happy to allow a trek series to use thier info. Ok, I am assuming that last point...I can only go on what I would do if approached.

To use the books and other derivative works would be a logistical nightmare. If the producers came out and told their writers to use the various fiction and non-fiction sources as canon, can you imagine what sort of fact checking would have to go on just to get a show approved? You would basically force every single writer into reading all the novels. Um, that's insane.

And, I wouldn't doubt that anyone writing for Star Trek has a copy of the Star Trek Encyclopedia at hand.

Given all the info in the RPG, tech manuals, encyclopedias, novels and all the other sources we use, with all that info out there why not use it?

The people making Star Trek already get raked over the coals for every single continuity error that shows up on screen. Can you imagine what it would be like if they were then forced to adhere to everything that was ever set down in print about Star Trek?

Sure there is very little info on such races as the Axanari, Andorians and Tellerites use what you have mixed with a little common sense and a lot of imagination to come up with something interesting, is it so wrong in going with good "established" background instead of coming up with a "dogs breakfast" like most of the shows evidence (talking Ent. here.) That is all I'm asking.

While you may feel like you've been force fed a "dog's breakfast," there are many others who have been enjoying the shows. I don't know if they're accepting unsolicited scripts, but if you don't like what you're seeing try sending them one you'd like to see.

Everytime I watch Ent. I think why is this on?

Is Rick Berman or Brannon Braga coming into your home every Wednesday evening? Are they forcing you to sit in front of the television with your eyelids held open, giving you no other choice but to watch the putrid filth that has become the Star Trek franchise?

Quack!

[Phantom]

Again all you allude to is that it is clearing up canon problems caused by Voyager. Specify, give examples.

Ok, it would take alot of time. Point conceded.


Keeping continutiy? How? A few points that I have noticed;
-Starfleet came into existance after the Federation came into being. It was the UESA or some such thing, not Starfleet.
-The Vulcans are all wrong.
-Sorry hate to mention this again, but...the ship being more advanced then the Deadalus-class which was around (canon wise at the time.) Sure it may look like a baseball and something else...Whatever.
-What is the difference between a Phase Pistol and phaser?
-Now it looks like the Klingon conflict that has been mentioned on screen will not happen. Seem to be gettin' along quite nice. Guess some diplomat screws up bad in a future episode.

[Diamond]

Starfleet came into existance after the Federation came into being. It was the UESA or some such thing, not Starfleet.

That's pretty deep digging. We know the 'Starfleet' of Enterprise is NOT that of the Federation. It's Earth's spaceships. Ans 'Starfleet' could be a ubiquitous nickname. The name officially on the books could be 'UESA' or whatever it was.

-The Vulcans are all wrong.

I disagree. Tuvok was different from Spock was different from T'pau. It's a hundred years earlier. 19th century humans are going to have a tremendously different society than 20th century humans. But they're still human!

-Sorry hate to mention this again, but...the ship being more advanced then the Deadalus-class which was around (canon wise at the time.) Sure it may look like a baseball and something else...Whatever.

Your point? Enterprise was described as the most advanced ship out there. Deadalus-class ships might be out there. Was the physical description of the Deadalus class shown on screen? Or is that a fan assumption? Even if it was, who's to say there are not Deadalus-class ships out there? Travis Merriweather was a Boomer on something! (albeit probably not a Deadalus-class ship. Point is, there's more than just Enterprise out there from Earth).

-What is the difference between a Phase Pistol and phaser?

Simple. A phase pistol has two settings- stun and kill. So we were told in Enterprise #2. A phaser has stun, heat, kill, and desintegrate. That's a significant difference. And who knows what other advanced features? Perhaps the phasers store more power.

-Now it looks like the Klingon conflict that has been mentioned on screen will not happen. Seem to be gettin' along quite nice. Guess some diplomat screws up bad in a future episode.

Gee, they had *one* meeting where they got along and all of a sudden the war is off? That's not breaking cannon. And no reason to think the war is off. After all, the VERY NEXT encounter the Klingons say the Enterprise crew has used up their goodwill and not to expect the Klingons to be so friendly (!) next time.

[Phantom]

Ok, why use it then? It was mentioned in "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" By Kirk "that they were a combined service..." and that their authority was the United Earth Space Probe Agency. The term Starfleet came later.

Yes Tuvok, Spock, Sarek,Saavik and T'Pau were all differnet people and they fit into the Vulcan mold that had been laid down almost from the start of the show...Logical and Unemotional. The Vulcans on this series continually exhibit at least one emotion "contempt" and that isn't very logical now is it.

The class was mentioned at least one time on the screen "Power Play", and it is shown as a desk top model in DS9

Ok gotcha...A phase pistol has kill and stun...Phasers have multi settings. Makes sense.

[Phantom]

Also, see rgilberts post in the other "Andorian Incident Thread" he makes some good points about the holes they've already blasted in the story after only 6 eps.

[REG]

-Starfleet came into existance after the Federation came into being. It was the UESA or some such thing, not Starfleet.

It was United Earth Space Probe Agency (or UESPA), which is a weird name to be under the umbrella of the United Federation of Planets (unless the Federation is mainly a collective of human-inhabited planets). It was used once during the first season until they decided to go with Starfleet. I can forgive Roddenberry and have chosen to ignore this piece of info.

Besides, I cannot take a serious stance if Captain Archer keep mentioning that name in full or use a shorthand pronunciation "Yoo-Spa." I'm going to keep cracking up. The name sound worse than NASA. Maybe if they change it to Intergalactic Space Probe Agency ("I-Spa").

[AllenS]

Originally posted by Phantom

-Starfleet came into existance after the Federation came into being. It was the UESA or some such thing, not Starfleet.
-

This is the kind of thing that drives me nuts. The United Earth Space Probe Agency was mentioned in the writer's guide and was a throwaway line until someone (maybe Roddenberry, maybe Coon) decided it was too long and replaced it with Starfleet. I have no doubt that they would be quite happy if the UESPA thing was completely forgotten about and it was assumed (as it should be) that the organization was always called Starfleet. It has NEVER been established in any episode when the Federation version of Starfleet was formed. Just as the present-day U.N. uses the forces of it's members, it could easily be assumed that the Earth Starfleet later forms the core of what becomes the Federation Starfleet. But we will not know for sure until it appears ON SCREEN. Given the much greater preponderance of Starfleet mentions over UESPA (and the latter's occurance early in the still embryoic first season of TOS, never to be heard from again), I contend that the organization was is and always shall be STARFLEET.

AllenS

[Cochrane]

When talking about the Romulan War, was it ever said that Earth ships couldn't see pictures from other ships at all, or just from Romulan ships?

[Phantom]

It was stated that the oppossing sides only commicated with each other via sub-space. So, it could go both ways. Nothing was ever stated about when visual communication between two ships was a possiblity.

[prophetsteve]

-Starfleet came into existance after the Federation came into being. It was the UESA or some such thing, not Starfleet.

I have no problem with Earth having Starfleet before the Federation. Especially since, as the series has been written, humanity really isn't contributing much to the future UFP.

The Vulcans know everyone, have been everywhere, and have superior technology. It seems that in the UFP that the Vulcans will be the crux of the early Federation rather than humanity (unless we see humanity blossom like it did on Babylon 5).

At least that humanity can do is give them the beginnings of the greatest exploration, scientific, and pseudo-miltary organization in Federation history (well its probably the only one but lets not quibble).

As far as UESPA can goes - I can accept that they really meant Starfleet. I have not doubt that when the Federation is formed, Starfleet will probably end up being the best organization to handle the UFP's exploration and diplomacy mandate. Its not like the Vulcans or Andorians have endeared themselves to other races...and if anyone allows the Tellerites to handle diplomacy....

Heck I am accepting a lot of other things for the series so I might as well accept this

[Miymaani]

I think the term "phase pistol" is just so new that the "jargon" word "phaser" hasn't quite come around to use. First it's gotta be a slang verb, "I phased his ***", then the object becomes associated with what it does, hence, phase-er... and eventually the jargon becomes the standard usage.

I'd think of a RL example, but it's been a long, insomniac night.

As far as the UESPA, I think it turned up in another place, but when Kirk went back in time and said that was the service the Enterprise represented, it seemed to have the character of something made off the cuff, possibly to preserve whatever dangling thread of the Prime Directive he might have left hanging. ie, referring to the UFP Starfleet wouldn't be as revealing as the half-truth of a UnitedEarth.


Still, I always used to assume that somewhere in history, a UESPA existed, at least prior to the formation of the Federation.