We Will be Assimilated

[Diamond]

The problem with the Federation is that if they believe in freedom and self determination as Picard declared in Best of Both Worlds, then if these fruitcakes want to be assimilated by the Borg that's their problem.

But obviously as Starfleet officers the PCs can't let Federation citizens commit suicide

That's not the Federation's problem, it's the Federation's STRENGTH. As Starfleet officers, the PCs are bound to let Federation citizens make their own choices about their lives. If they are tibetean monks self-immolating themselves to show the depths of their desire for peace, or are fruitcakes who want to escape their troubles by joining the Borg, Starfleet officers should in theory let them. The only argument preventing the latter might be that as Borg drones, they'd endanger others, and that has to be prevented. But if the argument is phrased as preventing someone from comitting suicide, there's nothing obvious about it. Naturally it is undesirable to have people commit suicide, and the Federation would offer (but not force) councellors, help of all sorts, and all the super-science social tools (remember, Trek's most useful advances is not things like warp drive and transporters so much as to social tools required to have a near-utopian society). That's a good adventure right there.

[ghosty]

When I say problem I don't mean it in a negative sense. I'm just saying that its one of the moral dilemnas that the PCs will face when they confront this scenairo. They must respect the rights of Federation citizens but they have to balance it with their own moral code...do "rights" give people the right to kill themselves or virtually doing it anyway...by being assimilated, the personality is completely subsumed and hence the person is "dead".

Suicide is illegal in most nations although suicides are rarely prosecuted because they are usually mentally unstable anyway...and counselling is mandatory not voluntary.

Anyway the point is that the PCs have to make the cultists see the error of their ways without a blatant violation of a citizen's fundamental rights.

[Pope]

Might not the cultists defection be seen as treason? Perhaps not if they're all civies, but if any of them have Starfleet tactical plans or are high ranking psionicists with various orgs, the PC's might be tasked with stopping their attempt to align with the enemy.

Furthermore, if the Borg had any use (or application) of psionics would we have not seen something of that sort before? (I'm almost certain they'd have assimilated a psionic species before the Enterprise encountered them). The cultists most certainly could be attracted to the "one-mind" ideal, but I doubt the Borg would have a use for them. They'd probably chuck out the organ responsible for psionics as useless or something...

[ghosty]

Do the Borg have any use for psionics? Who knows...probably not.

But on the other hand, who's to say that the hive mind isn't based on some form of machine driven telepathy or began as some form of telepathy. It could be that the original race that spawned the Borg (lets not start) were telepathic and the group mind was responsible for them becoming the Borg. Don't ask how...its just one of those things in Trek that defy all attempts to rationalize coherently.

[Diamond]

Suicide is illegal in most nations although suicides are rarely prosecuted

...beceause they're _dead_.

A century ago it was not legal in most nations for women to vote, but that didn't mean that's how the Federation is. The legal status of things in early 21st century Earth isn't the 24th Century Federation.

If it's one thing we've seen time and time again is the the Federation allows personal choice. I agree with you- becoming a drone would make one effectively dead (although it is possible to be rescued. Wether one is dead in the eyes of the Law might be a suitable court episode in itself. But me personally, I agree with that part). But in the Federation, it seems logical to what we've seen so far that rights (don't put them in quotes) and civil liberties in the Federation would allow people to kill themselves, even though we vehlmently disagree with that choice.

How about the terminally ill - does Federation law require Kirk to have to turn McCoy in for what McCoy revealed in the flashback in STV (that is, respecting his father's wishes to end his pain by turning off the life support - and tragically a cure for his condition was found too late) ? And remember we're dealing with the Federation here. All their laws have to apply to aliens across the galaxy. If there's a race which dies as a result of reproducing, are Federation laws going to require them to stop because it's suicide for them to have sex? Obviously not.

The episode still stands well - clearly the characters will want to convince the crackpots not to comitt suicide. But they can't just say, "it's against the law to comitt suicide.", stun them, and end the confrontation. That would violate the crackpot's civil rights. Now, you *might* be able to do so under the argument, "that would be aiding and abeting the Borg Collective."

The Federation is lucky in it's near-utopian position, in that it's a lot easier to maintain near-utopia than to create it. They've solved the problems that drive people to suicide - it must be almost unheard of. So there would be no reason to make it illegal.

[calguard66]

Originally posted by Pope
Might not the cultists defection be seen as treason? Perhaps not if they're all civies, but if any of them have Starfleet tactical plans or are high ranking psionicists with various orgs, the PC's might be tasked with stopping their attempt to align with the enemy.

Civilians can commit treason just as easily as uniformed personnel... my personal example is Jane Fonda.

In any case, giving aid, comfort, or material assistance to the enemy... or acts in furtherance of those goals... would constitute treason in the US.

A treason investigation would likely give a starfleet officer wider latitude for action. There is clearly at least the _possibility_ of treason, so even if a starfleet officer didn't think he could make the treason charges stick, he could use that as an excuse to disrupt the attempt long enough for it to fail.

[Ergi]

I once ran a similar adventure called Virus which was about some Bynars who had been separated from their network because they got insane. Since their mental disorder was able to infect others over the network their connection had been cut off.
The four infected Bynars had no possibility to re-establish their link to the rest of their species they developed a plan to join an other network; guess which one.
They hired some Nausicaans to steal some intact debris from Wolf 359 to find a way to contact the Borg.
Fortunately the players arrived just in time to prevent them from sending their message.

[John Raynor]

Originally posted by ghosty
Do the Borg have any use for psionics? Who knows...probably not.

The Borg are always eager for new knowledge and technology.
They haven't, thus far, taken psionic power particularly seriously,
because they've been able to solve most of their problems
through engineering and pure brute force (techniques that
they've already spent a lot of time and energy developing). On
the other hand, they're also a pragmatic bunch, and if a powerful
tool, fully developed and ready for use, falls into their hands,
they'd be sure to use it.

"Borg-plus-Psionics" could be very scary.
Infiltration and subversion. "Covert quasi-drones," linked to the
Collective by telepathy, rather than implanted subspace radio
transceivers. The rather Faustian "Borg-augmented sorcerer,"
a "semi-assimilated" psionicist, who retains enough individuality
to operate in normal humanoid society, but whose mental powers
are greatly "boosted" (via a telepathic link) by a "hidden chorus"
of fully-assimilated "psi-drones" ("pay no attention to the
cyborgs behind that curtain").

At the risk of sounding dreadfully heretical, the "Chaos" and
"Genestealer" cults of G. D. W.'s "Warhammer 40,000" universe
might be inspirational.

The "Borg-plus-Psionics" would be a nightmare for the happy,
freedom-loving, utopian Federation.

Cue music from Mel Brooks' History of the World, Part I:
"The Inquisition, what a show... the Inquisition, here we go...
I know you're wishing that we'd go away... But the Inquisition's
here and it's here to stay!"

[Lt.Khrys Antos]

I just thought of a possibility for the PC's. Now the cultists want to join the collective which they say is exercising their Rights and Freedoms. Now the PC's cannot in good conscious let them commit suicide, and it would also be a breach of security.

The Federation must have an overruling section which suspends your right to promote 'peace, order and good gov't' or somethin' along those lines. Now a charter of Rights And Freedoms must state that no part of the charter may be used to suspend or take away a right or freedom from within the charter. The PC's therefore are allowed to overrule their right basing their decision on the cultists willingness to commit suicide. This constitutes a crime as mentioned in a previous post, meaning, that their right to self-determination/freedom of choice is overruled by their right to life.

This is a purely a legal understanding of the problem and some PC's may just decide that the Phaser is mightier than the Pen.

I'm definitely going to run this by my players and see what they do. Great Thread

[ghosty]

Interesting constitutional point. I doubt that officers can just suspend the rights and freedoms written into the Articles of Federation without a Court order of some sort. If you allow that sort of thing, it'll be a short road to a police state.

Although they could justify their act of violating the rights of Federation citizens, they'll still have to answer for it before a court marital.

To clarify, suicide is a crime (so anyone who attempts suicide can be prosecuted) and anyone who aids and abets a suicide is also liable for prosecution. No matter how utopian a society somethings will remain crimes. Murder is still murder and well suicide is nothing less than murder of oneself. On the McCoy issue, relatives of persons on life support machines can ask that they be turned off and McCoy is a doctor who is legally enitled to do so.

[Michael Barratt]

The cultists could have seen or read some of the reports about Seven, the borg-kids, or Hugh, or other ex-Borg (there have to be more than just those we've seen)... and figure they had something wonderful. People can be pretty odd about what they consider "better" than their current state: imagine how being a part of the collective might look to people who never managed to succeed at anything - washed out of Starfleet Academy, failed the Merchant Marine test - the Borg Collective is a place where everyone knows everything, and everyone is competant...

The Doc

[ghosty]

Sorry MB, the cultists aren't attracted to the independent Borg but the collective "evil Borg" that has terrorised the Federation since the 2nd Season of TNG.

Further I'd think that much of the info about Seven, Hugh and other independent Borg are classified so high that only select individual admirals and the President of the UFP would have sight of them. The "normal" collective Borg would be public information because of incidents like Wolf 359 and the 2nd Borg incursion from First Contact.

[Capt.Hunter]

As a real twist:

During the pursuit of the cultists, something goes wrong with their transwarp drive and plunges them tens of thousands of years into the past, where they start the Borg Collective! Now do the PCs interfere, knowing what a vast alteration it would make to the timeline?

BTW: What's the deal on Jane Fonda being a traitor? I've never heard anything about her that could be construed as such (though those aerobics videos should be a hanging offence...).

[ghosty]

Please no more time travel twists. I like time travel twists but they just throw far too many spanners into the works making the scenario unplayable.

On the issue of Jane Fonda I think Cal is referring to incidents during the Vietnam War when Jane Fonda gave aid and comfort to North Vietnam as an anti-war protest. I don't recall her being tried for treason but there was an incredible backlash at the time.

[ghosty]

Looking at the suicide issue firstly if the particular culture condones suicide (Klingons for an example), then the Federation or Starfleet cannot intefere (Prime Directive) but then if asked they will not actively participate.

Remember Riker's objections to Worf's request to participate in Worf's suicide after he was paralyzed.