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Thread: USS/NCC/Fleet Captain and Other Explanations

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb USS/NCC/Fleet Captain and Other Explanations

    For those of you who may be interested this is an updated version of a post I made sometime ago. It is provided as FYI, and in no way is intended to imply that this is the proper explanation of their use in Star Trek. I have been a student of naval history for sometime, and provide this for your use as you deem fit.

    Topic #1 : USS

    All navies of the world have some form of this. In America we use “USS”, standing for United States Ship. Britain uses “HMS”, standing for His/Her Majesties Ship.

    This comes from the need to identify the nationality of a ship. It is abbreviated because “United States Ship Iowa” is a mouthful to say.

    In Star Trek I have seen two options: (1) United Space Ship; and (2) United Star Ship.

    Topic #2 : NCC and NX

    In all navies before a ship can be built a contract has to be signed. This contract has two parts: it proves the intent of the government concerned to actually pay for the ship [the contract]; and it approves the ship as being seaworthy after its completion [the certificate]. Thus it is called the Naval Contract Certificate [NCC].

    Before a ship is ever named it is given an “NCC” number for identification; the ship being named much latter. In most navies the “NCC” number is painted on the bow of the ship (w/out the “NCC” letters) for identification. [The actual name of the ship being painted on the ships stern.]

    All ships of the same class are given concurrent “NCC” numbers. For example, of the four Iowa-class battleships built by the U.S. Navy, they are: USS Iowa, BB-61; USS New Jersey, BB-62; USS Missouri, BB-63; and the USS Wisconsin, BB-64.

    The “NX” designation has no existence in naval history. New ship designs are given an “NCC” number ass any other ship. The letter “X” does typically designate, however, an experiment; so Naval eXperiment could be one explanation.

    Topic #3 : Commodores and Fleet Captains

    A commodore, in the British Navy, is captain commanding a squadron or a division of a fleet. The title was temporary and the grade was not recognized. When a commodore had on his flagship a captain under him, he received the pay and allowances of a Rear Admiral.

    Prior to 1862 the rank did not exist in the U.S. navy, but the title was given by courtesy to a captain who had command of a squadron. The rank and grade were abolished in 1899 (except as a title by which captains with Civil War Service were retired), being brought back for use in both world wars; and still being used today [being termed, however, Rear Admiral Lower Half].

    Fleet Captain formerly, in both the British and Austro-Hungarian Navies, was used to distinguish between those officers who held rank of captain and commanded a ship [captain]; and those who held the rank of captain and served as chief of staff to a flag officer [fleet captain]. It was not a rank, but a title.

    The title Fleet Captain had a corespondent in the title “Fleet Engineer,” the person responsible for inspection of and advising the flag officer in regard to engineering questions with consern to a squadron or division of a fleet.

    Topic #4 : Fleet Admiral

    From Britain comes this naval tradition. The rank of Admiral (4 star) is given to those persons commanding a bureau, naval base or station, or combination of fleets. A Fleet Admiral (5 star) is given to those who are a member of the “Admiralty Staff.” At any given time there are four Fleet Admirals [also called Sea Lords). The head of the Admiralty is a politician, called the First Lord of the Admiralty.

    The only time in U.S. history that Fleet Admirals were appointed was in World War Two. This was done so that on the joint naval committee of the UK/US the U.S. admirals would not be junior to the UK admirals. The rank fell into disuse after the war.

    In the English speaking nations the term Fleet Admiral is preferred. In nations such as Germany and Russia the term Grand Admiral is used. The terms are interchangeable—meaning the same thing, and is the corespondent of the land forces rank of Field Marshal.

    Topic #5 : Ship Class and Type Class

    As we all know the ships class is named after the first vessel of that class. In addition, in every navy, a ship is given a type class to label the ships primary duty/function. The following are the major ship profile types:

    Aircraft Carrier (CV); Battleship (BB and DN [old style]); Heavy Cruiser (CA); Light Cruiser (CL); Destroyer (DD); Frigate (FF and DL [old style]); Submarine (SS); Hospital Ship (AH); Oil Tanker (AO); Transport (AP); Cargo Ship (AK); Repair Ship (AR); and Salvage Ship (ARS). [The “A” signifies that the vessel is an auxiliary ship, and not a ship of the line.]

    When a ship undergoes an up-grade a change is made in its type class, NOT its ship class. For example our game is on a Miranda -class Light Cruiser (F-CL). The Miranda -class has no rear firing phaser banks. Ours was given an up-grade to add one aft ventral; making it a Miranda -class Light Cruiser (F-CL+).

    Anytime another ship, of any class, is given rear firing phaser banks (called a plus-refit) it will have a “+” added to its type profile. For example the pre-movie Enterprise given the plus-refit would be a Constitution -class Heavy Cruiser (F-CA+). The movie Enterprise however would only be a Heavy Cruiser (F-CA); without the “+” because the plus-refit was built into the class.

    The name given the refit is determined by naval engineering command. It could easily have been termed the r-refit (F-CLr), or anything else you can think of. Once named, however, it remains with that name; making it easy to tell what the additions to the type profile mean. [You can thank our chief engineer for our refit name.)

    When a vessel undergoes a re-fit (such as Enterprise did for ST:TMP) the hull and systems are so modified that it is considered a new class; to be named after the first vessel of the class. Thus the reason that some [such as myself] refer to the movie Enterprise as an Enterprise -class Heavy Cruiser.

    When asked to identify itself a vessel should give name/class/type/and NCC number. For esample: “USS Iowa; Iowa-class; BB-61.” Thus you know that it is a United States Ship named Iowa (61) and is a battleship of the Iowa -class. [The pre-movie Enterprise, by current naval standards, would identify as: “USS Enterprise; Constitution-class; CA-1701.”]
    Steven "redwood973" Wood

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  2. #2
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    I like the Naval Contract Certificate idea. But I did hear once that Roddenberry simply saw NC-(some number) on a plane he bordered once. He added the NC(C) and used it for the registry for the Enterprise. The story I heard was that the NCC didn't mean anything as far as Gene was concerned.

    I don't know how true this is, definitly a coincidence.

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    I to have heard a simply report about Gene's choice of NCC.

    But in modern times I feel Naval Contract Certificate is particularly apt.

    Some experiemental aircraft/rockets had NX prefixs which backs that idea well.

    Everything else I totally agree
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    I agree.

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    Thumbs up

    Very plausible.

    As for the NCC story, it was Matt Jeffries, the guy who designed and built the original Enterprise starship model. Being a civilian pilot himself, he happened upon the idea from the aircraft registry number.

    "Naval Contract Certificate." Sounds a lot better than "Naval Construction Contract."
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

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  6. #6
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    The story REG posted about "NCC" is the one I heard as well, but don't remember where. I always thought it cool that something they pulled out of the air actally did have a meaning.
    Steven "redwood973" Wood

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    Re: USS/NCC/Fleet Captain and Other Explanations

    Succinct, informative and to the point as always

    Thanks Redwood.

    A couple of comments and queries...

    ... [being termed, however, Rear Admiral Lower Half].
    That must be difficult to use in an emergency! This brings up something I've always wondered about. Why does the US military have such an enthusiasm for long unwieldy names and titles? It does seem a little inefficient to say the least... could one of you military types please enlighten me?

    A friend of mine used to describe it as "let's call a spade a portable entrenching tool."

    In the English speaking nations the term Fleet Admiral is preferred. In nations such as Germany and Russia the term Grand Admiral is used. The terms are interchangeable - meaning the same thing, and is the corespondent of the land forces rank of Field Marshal.
    IMHO Grand Admiral works great for Klingons!

    When a ship undergoes an up-grade a change is made in its type class, NOT its ship class. For example our game is on a Miranda -class Light Cruiser (F-CL). The Miranda -class has no rear firing phaser banks. Ours was given an up-grade to add one aft ventral; making it a Miranda -class Light Cruiser (F-CL+).
    Out of interest, where did the F- part come from?
    Jon

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    Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do."
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    Cool

    The NC(C) story is in the book The Original Making Of Star Trek. Good book.
    "Exploration is not a choice, really; it's an imperative." -Lt. Col. Michael Collins, Apollo 11

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    For what it's worth, the FAQ section on startrek.com has this question, "What does NCC stand for?" and the answer is that it doesn't officially mean anything. It then goes on to relate the airplane story mentioned above.

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    >>The “NX” designation has no existence in naval history. New ship designs are given an “NCC” number ass any other ship. The letter “X” does typically designate, however, an experiment; so Naval eXperiment could be one explanation. <<

    I explain this one in my campaigns as the result of the combination of naval and airforce traditions. Experimental aircraft are often given the X designation in US service.

    >>When asked to identify itself a vessel should give name/class/type/and NCC number. For esample: “USS Iowa; Iowa-class; BB-61.” Thus you know that it is a United States Ship named Iowa (61) and is a battleship of the Iowa -class. [The pre-movie Enterprise, by current naval standards, would identify as: “USS Enterprise; Constitution-class; CA-1701.”]<<

    I imagine that those designations were not used due to the anti-military attitude at the time.

    In my Starfleet I don't use "explorer" as a class... or battleship. While I think that SF should be more military-oriented than most Trekkers, I do think they would avoid battleship and battlecruiser designations. I do use Dreadnought for the Sovreign class... it's just too cool, and fits my Starfleet's recent tendency towards a more military stance since the Dominion and Borg.

    I use frigate in the old sail sense... a powerful, fast ship capable of independant operations and escort work, but less powerful than a than a ship of the line. The Intrepid class are frigates in my Starfleet... just because Voyager was shortsighted in only outfitting for a "three hour cruise" doesn't mean the vessel isn't capable of more.

    All Starfleet-operated vessels primarily outfitted for scientific work are surveyors.
    Last edited by calguard66; 11-07-2001 at 12:32 PM.
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  11. #11
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    IMHO, there is a difference between an "up-grade" and "refit." As mentioned above the Miranda-class getting the aft fireing phaser, that is a up-grade. But when the finsihed ship is larger then the original, faster then the original and more heavily armed then the original that is a refit, as the Enterprise went through...This makes it a new class, ie the Enterprise-class.

    Anyway, my two cents worth.

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    NCC, etc.

    Originally posted by Phantom
    IMHO, there is a difference between an "up-grade" and "refit." As mentioned above the Miranda-class getting the aft fireing phaser, that is a up-grade. But when the finsihed ship is larger then the original, faster then the original and more heavily armed then the original that is a refit, as the Enterprise went through...This makes it a new class, ie the Enterprise-class.

    Anyway, my two cents worth.

    Present-day US Navy ships are numbered in sequence. For example, the first aircraft carrier was the USS Langley (CV-1), though she was technically converted from a collier (coal-tending ship) called the USS Jupiter.

    The USS Hornet (CV-12), which fought alongside the USS Enterprise during WW II, was the twelfth keel laid for a carrier class. Numbers proceed in order, though keels that were planned and never actually laid down were never seen. Successive carriers continue in sequence, all the way to the present Nimitz-class carriers.

    The designation CV derives as follows: C for Carrier, V for heavier-than-air craft being embarked (i.e., planes/helicopters). The Hornet was also known as CVA-12 (Attack) and CVS-12 (anti-Submarine) at various points in her career. Current nuclear powered carriers are designated CVN.

    As far as upgrade/refit goes, I don't think the Navy has ever made a clear distinction ... the Hornet and other Essex-class carriers went through a modernization program in 1951 or '52 (SCB-27, I think) then a more extensive program in 1956 (FRAM - Fleet Rebuilding And Modernization). At that time, the bow was enclosed and the angled flight deck was added, among other things.

    If you live in the San Francisco Bay Area, you can visit the USS Hornet -- she's at Pier 3 in Alameda (the former Alameda NAS), and open to the public Wednesday through Mondays.

    Other Essex-class carriers include the Lexington in Corpus Christi, TX; the Intrepid in NYC; and the Yorktown in South Carolina. All of them are open to some extent or another for tours/exhibits.

    Bob

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    Life models art...

    And, just to show that Starfleet isn't the only navy with bizarre numbering strategy...

    Fans sometimes go a little loony trying to make sense of the hull registries... For example, if Constellation, NCC-1017 is a member of the Constitution-class, how come she has a lower registry than Constitution NCC-1700?

    Well, in the US Navy, you've got your Los Angeles class subs, with registries like

    USS Los Angeles (SSN 688), Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
    USS Philadelphia (SSN 690), Groton, Conn.
    USS Memphis (SSN 691), Groton, Conn.
    USS Bremerton (SSN 698), San Diego, Calif.
    USS Jacksonville (SSN 699), Norfolk, Va.
    USS Dallas (SSN 700), Groton, Conn.
    USS La Jolla (SSN 701), Pearl Harbor, Hi.

    This class has been in service since 1976...

    Then, recently, we add the Seawolf-class.

    Ships:
    USS Seawolf (SSN 21), Groton, Ct.
    USS Connecticut (SSN 22), Groton, Ct.
    Jimmy Carter (SSN 23), (under construction)

    The reason for the 21? Cause its a ship of the 21st century.
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    Originally posted by Imagus
    A couple of comments and queries...

    That must be difficult to use in an emergency! This brings up something I've always wondered about. Why does the US military have such an enthusiasm for long unwieldy names and titles? It does seem a little inefficient to say the least... could one of you military types please enlighten me?

    A friend of mine used to describe it as "let's call a spade a portable entrenching tool."
    Keep in mind IMAGUS we also tend to pay $100 to $250 per toilet seat for our military. . .that, like the long winded names/titles, may never be explained. The "Lower Half" part of the title is not used in address. . .the officer being termed "Rear Admiral." Its purpose is more to distinguish pay grade.

    Originally posted by Imagus
    IMHO Grand Admiral works great for Klingons!
    We have only come across him once (NPC), but we have a klingon grand admiral playing around in the shadows of our games.

    Originally posted by Imagus
    Out of interest, where did the F- part come from?
    Naval ships monitor all traffic around them at all times. In the "control/situation rooms" the traffic is mapped out and kept updated. All know vessels are identified on the map with their nationality and type class. In a U.S. c/s room a British heavy cruiser would be tagged " G-CA " for meaning it is a heavy cruiser belonging to Great Britain. A German destroyer would be tagged "D-DD " I know more naval history/proceedure than is good for me. . .I put the "F" in there out of habbit. Didn't look right without it.

    Originally posted by Calguard66
    All Starfleet-operated vessels primarily outfitted for scientific work are surveyors.
    I would assume a surveyor (by todays standards) would be listed as "Surveyor (F-GS)
    Steven "redwood973" Wood

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  15. #15
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    Originally posted by redwood973


    I would assume a surveyor (by todays standards) would be listed as "Surveyor (F-GS)

    Yup, just like my crew's current ship's namesake:

    USS Pathfinder, AGS-1... a US Coast and Geodesic Survey vessel seconded to the USN during WWII.

    The current ship:

    USS Pathfinder, NCC-82135... a Nova class surveyor assigned to the Typhon Sector.
    “I am a soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight.”

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