Conversion from Icon to ?

[tonyg]

reimero,
I wouldn't worry too much about a "universal" system key aspects of role-playing. The universal system concept is not a new one, and generally what happens is that a company tends to use one game engine for several RPGs. In fact, out of the list og games you current play, all of them were systems designed as part of a company's universal rules system. AD&D was reused in early TSR RPGs like the orignal Boot Hill and Meptamorphis Alpah/Gamma World; Twilight 2K was used again in Traveller: New Era; The basic system used in Cyperpunk was also used in Mekton; The system in L5R, with some changes was reused for 7th Sea; The d6 system from West End's Star Wars RPG was resued in moderately altered form for the DC Heroes RPG, Hecules & Xena RPG and others; the Icon system was reused, although for only a limited release for LUG's Dune RPG; and The Basic Role-pLAying System used for CoC was used by Chaosium for most of thier RPGs, including RuneQuest, Ringworld, ElfQuest, and the Strombringer/Elric line (BRP in many was was the first universal RPG system). The rules for the Bond RPG were reusued in a couple of Victory Game's board games, including the James Bond Assaut Game, and a WWII board game.

The D20 concept isn't necessarily a bad one- it allows many companies to profit off of the D&D cash cow, and even introduce thier products to a new market. The only problems I can see are if companies drop thier other products to exclusively support thier D20 line. So far, that hasn't happened. Comapnies liek AEG and Chaosium are still supporting thier own systems in addtion to D20.

[tonyg]

silvercloud,

If you want to convert from ICON to D20, you probably want to pick up a copy of WotC's STAR WARS RPG. The D20 STAR WARS rules are a bit different from the D&D version, and there is a secotion on convert characters from West End's D6 system that can be helpful.

Also, at the AEG site are conversion rules from thier L5R system to the new D20 Oriental Adventueres rules. While the L5R rules are substantially differenet from the ICON system, there are enough similaritlies to assist in conversion of stats-especially for attributes..

Basically, what you want to do is look at the character's skills and how they tranlate. For instance, a character with a 2 attribute and 3 skill in ICON has about a 75% chance of making a moderate (7) test. A moderate (7) test in ICON is probably around a DC 15 in D20, so a 75% chance equal around a +10 modifier. You will want to try to convert the task scale around a bit to see what provides the best fit from one RPG to the other.

Once you do this to all the character's skills, you can figure out what class(s) the character has and "reverse engineer" the character's level that way.

Then you will need to do something similar for the TREK equipment, like starships and phasers.


This is a bit or work, but isn't too difficult. Mostly number crunching and checking to make sure the results make sense.

Good Luck.

[michaeltaylor]

Originally posted by Highway Hoss
I, for one would like to see an Icon to BESM conversion (for a somewhat selfish reason: So I could run a Star Trek/El Hazard adventure).

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/...0%26%20Movies/

[Thanatos]

In my experience I've been able to convert d20 to just about anything I wanted to run. That said I tended to wedge the system into the setting, rather than vice versa, by stripping the system down to only its base components and removing all the crap that ruins DnD for me (i.e. classes, levels, rewriting the attributes and most of the combat rules, etc.)

Depending on how much work you want to do a d20 rewrite would probably work well for Trek, especially if you adapt over a better character creation system like the one found in LUG Trek, CODA, or even something like Shadowrun (another system I once considered for a non-Starfleet oriented Trek game). That and I reccomend removing levels, partly because I hate them and partly because I don't think structured advancement is at all reflective of the broad concepts of self-improvement Star Trek embraced and preached.

This is all a lot more work than it sounds like, though, so its really dependant on the amount of time you have to put into it. The last system I built after ripping d20 apart was a mod of their Star Wars (borrowing a lot from CODA, particularly in character advancement) took a month of writing around my work schedule to finish to playable, the more advanced stuff came later.

[Silverstreak]

Hi, I'm new here.

I've been playing the ICON system of Star Trek.

Have to say I don't much care for it and from what I've seen I don't much care for the CODA system either.

I was wondering, does anyone here or has anyone here tried using TSR's Alternity rules or White Wolf's rules for Star Trek?

I'm in agreement that D20 is crap for the most part and is good for D&D and that's it. (Although I'm a firm believer that there was no need to replace AD&D 2nd Ed)

Any help would be appreciated.

One more thing, does anyone have the LUG Next Generation and DS9 books available for download on the net? Mine are packed away and I would much rather have them on my PC for quicker reference.

Thanks.

[Owen E Oulton]

Hi, Silverstreak.

Welcome to the Trek-RPG.net Forums. Unfortunately, Board policy forbids posting links to sites which post significant portions of the copyrighted rules sets - even the out-of-print versions - in excess of what is allowed under Fair Use. Yeah, it's a pain in the butt, but it's the rules.

[spshu]

<snip>
I was wondering, does anyone here or has anyone here tried using TSR's Alternity rules or White Wolf's rules for Star Trek?

<snip>
Thanks.

Their is information on using Alternity for Trek. Go to TrekRPGnet Directory, there is a link for that site there.

[Spike]

Hi, Silverstreak.

Welcome to the Trek-RPG.net Forums. Unfortunately, Board policy forbids posting links to sites which post significant portions of the copyrighted rules sets - even the out-of-print versions - in excess of what is allowed under Fair Use. Yeah, it's a pain in the butt, but it's the rules.

Question: Just rules or all copyrighted material?

i.e. ICE's Lords Of Middle Earth Vol 2 plagarized in Hall Of Fire e-zine. Plagarized the right word? Is this okay here?

Clarify before error made.

[Owen E Oulton]

I'm not familiar with what's in the E-zine, so I can't comment on specifics. I'm also not a copyright expert. Plagiarism involves the passing off of another's work as one's own - an adaptation of an adventure from one system to another, so long as the original is acknowledged, is not plagiarism. It may or may not violate copyright, but generally speaking the policy in the past has pretty much been restricted to wholesale copies of an entire text or a major portion thereof. Most gaming boards and 'zines (electronic or paper) make use of some copyrighted material, especially ones devoted to licensed subjects. I personally wouldn't sweat too much about the Hall of Fire stuff - in most likely falls within Fair Use.

Take my Star Trek Universe page as an example: I have incorporated several screenshots and scans of stills from the shows, a few images from sources like Star Trek, the Magazine, usually altered somewhat, and completely redrawn deckplans from some of the old FASA adventures. These images constitute a very small portion of my page, and an even smaller portion of the original source material, and fall well within the Fair Use doctrine. There are sites out there which have scans of entire gamebooks or blueprint sets, which is not Fair Use at all.

There are special cases, of course. Palladium Games is aggressive in "protecting" their IP and will go after you for so much as posting your own character in their game format (regardless of Fair Use), whereas Far Future Enterprises will allow you to post huge chunks of their material so long as their canned copyright notice is appended. Guess whose policy I prefer?

It all comes down to a judgement call - first on the part of the poster, and secondly on the part of the Mod Squad. If in doubt, ask (messages on the Boards are OK, E-mail or PMs are even better).

[Silverstreak]

Hi, Silverstreak.

Welcome to the Trek-RPG.net Forums. Unfortunately, Board policy forbids posting links to sites which post significant portions of the copyrighted rules sets - even the out-of-print versions - in excess of what is allowed under Fair Use. Yeah, it's a pain in the butt, but it's the rules.

How about this then, can someone email me and let me know or possibly share the files that way?

I really do own all the DS9 and TNG books and the Andorian book, it's just that I'm 1500 KM from home going to college and all my books are packed away at home.

Thanks,

Scott

[AllenS]

[QUOTE=SilverstreakI'm in agreement that D20 is crap for the most part and is good for D&D and that's it. (Although I'm a firm believer that there was no need to replace AD&D 2nd Ed)[/QUOTE]

well I guess that means I should quit running my playtest of WWE Know Your Role, the Babylon 5 RPG, and Spycraft because they all use the d20 system and even though my players all LOVE these games, they obviously won't work because the d20 system can ONLY be used for D&D.

That is an inaccurate generalization. D&D is one VERSION of the d20 system. The D20 system can be used for ANY genre. Just strip out the tropes for D&D and insert tropes for new system/genre...voila! It works. I have very successfully run d20 system games (VERY enjoyable games) for science fiction, westerns, pulp adventure, espionage, horror, and yes, pro wrestling.

YOU may not like the d20 system, and that's fine. But you might want to avoid generializations like "D20 only works for D&D", because the moment ANYONE points out an exception, it pretty much trashes the whole statement.

Oh..and I QUIT playing D&D for years because of 2nd edition and it's burdensome collection of overpowered "kits" and company-trashing endless supplements (there are reasons TSR went under and the "Let's put out way too many books and divide up our sales among unprofitable campaign settings" 2nd edition was one of them.)

Allen

[Capt. K. Vaughn]

Of the d20 systems, Babylon 5 and Stargate are two of my favorites. In my opinion 3.x was a huge improvement over any other version of DnD allowing versatility without necessarily creating a huge-glut of power-mongering which essentially killed the joy of DnD for me in 2nd edition. It went from being a role that one played in 1st edition to a roll that one used in 2nd.

d20 can certainly be used for a number of systems besides Fantasy but care must be taken to shape the use of those mechanics to the setting.

B5 and Stargate are two pretty excellent examples of doing just that.

Regards,
CKV.

[Silverstreak]

Perhaps they are, but in my opinion I can't see why someone would play B5 and Stargate anyway. No offense, but to me B5 is like trying to play in the Star Wars universe, the main story was told and involves very specific people, leaving nothing for anyone else.

Then there's Stargate, didn't really care for it.

Glad you enjoy your games, but again, I feel the D20 system is garbage.

[Owen E Oulton]

How about this then, can someone email me and let me know or possibly share the files that way?

That's strictly between you and them. There's a considerable difference between a private communication like e-mail and posting in a public forum.

As for the "Who would play D20?" issue, please keep it civil. I don't like D20 myself - I gave up on D&D in 1980 - but if someone wants to play it, or play in the Babylon 5 or Stargate SG-1 universes, or even commit such atrocities as putting pineapple on pizza or watching anim&eacute;, it's their right. Let's face it, you're not going to change their mind, so why bother?

[Evan van Eyk]

or even commit such atrocities as putting pineapple on pizza

*sigh* ok, you got me. I confess! I regularily put pineapple on pizza and I love it! There you have it! You will never get me alive !*runs away frantically*


But to get back to topic, I infact do not see a reason to convert the ICON stuff to any other system. It has a nice modular design, has enough realism to reflect that of the TV shows and its fast and not too complicated. I also think its balanced between the different character classes and allows good character development.

For those who prefer D20 *shudder* I think they will be quite pleased with the CODA system, because I always felt its a mixture of ICON and D20.

In general I prefer no-level systems for my RPGs, especially "modern" ones and therefore D20 would be no option for me. Since Trek also involves many variants of high-tech, I think the WOD system cannot simulate that enough. However things I have worked with before the ICON system are WEG's D6 system ( they used it for Star Wars ) and their Masterbook system.