Funny thing happened when we got to Aplha Centauri. . .

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Captain Zymmer
I say put whatever you want in your campaign. Enjoy yourself. Have fun with it.

I have said it before and I wills ay it again, there are always people who will tell you why you can't do something, but it is rarer to find those who say "Shouldn't fit, but let's see if we can make it".

Instead fo shooting the idea down, let's try and build it up a bit.

Hey Captain,
What I tried to say was not that everyone should stick to what LUG wrote, as if it was set in stone. I am the last one who will try to rule the way other people play their games.
When I say "I don't see why..." that usually means "Maybe someone out there can make me see why..." and not "There is no reason to do this." I thought that would have become clear from the first sentence in the post, but maybe I was mistaken.

I am just curious why it seems no one has any big motivation to change something about the other species except for the Centaurans - or at least that's the way it looks to me.

Maybe it's just that the Centaurans are not very 'exotic' as they are written right now. Maybe they are just too human-like to appeal to many gamers, who would rather just play a Human instead?

Originally posted by redwood973
Political Structure

The Centauri are ruled by an Emperor; along with a governing body, called the Centaurum. The power, structure, and method of appointment of the Centaurum are unknown. It is known that the body is divided into many factions.

Overall I like this Template very much. But if you want to make them a member species of the Federation you might consider slightly modifying the above entry, giving some more details.
IMHO a species wouldn't become a member of the Federation without providing some details on the internal workings of their governing body. I just can't see the Feds admitting a species to the club, without knowing some details on the way they govern themselves, because Centauri government could well include practises and rules that would appear unethical to the rest of the Feds.
Otherwise you could be heading for some very embarrasing situations later on when the Feds discover, for example, that members of the Centaurum are stoned to death if they don't pay regular bribes to the Emperor.

[redwood973]

Originally posted by Phoenix
Actually I kind of like the idea, one race that joined or formed the Federation as the next step of political development. Some how their design to be the top species in the interstellar government got side stepped by the Humans the founding point of balence.

The warriors- Andor
The peaceful- Vulcan
The hard working- Teller
The decadent- Centuari
And the point to balence- Terra

You can see a patern forming here that makes some proverse sense. The ingredence to make one fullfilled, lasting greater government...IDIC?

Wow! Excelent point Phoenix. I had not even thought of this point of thinking. These five "powers" would cover the "IDIC" thing perfectly!

Originally posted by Lancer

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by redwood973

Political Structure

The Centauri are ruled by an Emperor; along with a governing body, called the Centaurum. The power, structure, and method of appointment of the Centaurum are unknown. It is known that the body is divided into many factions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Overall I like this Template very much. But if you want to make them a member species of the Federation you might consider slightly modifying the above entry, giving some more details.
IMHO a species wouldn't become a member of the Federation without providing some details on the internal workings of their governing body. I just can't see the Feds admitting a species to the club, without knowing some details on the way they govern themselves, because Centauri government could well include practises and rules that would appear unethical to the rest of the Feds.

Otherwise you could be heading for some very embarrasing situations later on when the Feds discover, for example, that members of the Centaurum are stoned to death if they don't pay regular bribes to the Emperor.[/B]

Good point Lancer.

Unfortunatly this all may be for not. Our group has had a difficult time with this idea. Some want to include the B/5 Centauri, others don't. It has actually gotten very heated at one point. It looks that we will not be getting a new member, because of this issue. Not sure if it is because he did feel the group was to his liking, or because he has not been getting his way.

I must admit I have had fun trying to tweek the whole idea to fit into what our group consider "Trek Standard". I think I will keep playing with this idea. May be someday I can figure out how to use the B/5 Centauri in a way that will please everyone.

So if you all have any further ideas please post them. I will use them all to adjust the template for Trek use.

[Perrryyy]

I had a thought. Feel free to shoot it down.

Maybe the B5 Centauri aren't from Alpha Centauri. As a narrator, you could explain it simply that they're from Beta Centauri or another star in the Centaur constellation. That being the case, they're's more than enough room in *any* ST world for both "Centauris".

Maybe they're offshoots of one another like the Vulcans & Romulans.

[ghosty]

The one problem I do have is that the Centauri Republic is an "empire" which implies a multi-system polity (which was what the B5 Centauri are). If the Centauri are from Alpha Centauri, then Earth (as the closest sun to Alpha Centauri) would have been part of the said empire...food for thought there...and wouldn't have first contact been with the local "superpower" and not the Vulcans...more food for thought.

Okay Zymmer I'll come up with a solution

I think the best answer is that Alpha Centauri is not the Centauri original homeworld, it was a distant province of their empire, sort of a frontier post...the real Republic and empire is deeper into what is today Federation space. Unfortunately, they tried to conquer the Vulcans and for the first time the Centauri were defeated in battle.

The government is shaken and is invicibility questioned. Soon non-Centauri provinces are in revolt and the empire, long rotted by decadence falls and all vestiages of its power are destroyed. Only on Alpha Centauri does any part of the only mighty republic saved, saved by a farsighted governor who built his own government based on the original. They are no longer any sort of power and had to submit to joining the Federation but many still dream of their greatness and mourn the end of their "empire".

[Perrryyy]

I like!

[ghosty]

Originally posted by ghosty
They are no longer any sort of power and had to submit to joining the Federation but many still dream of their greatness and mourn the end of their "empire".

I was just thinking of something Londo Mollari said in the pilot. He was bemoaning the tottering state of the Centauri Republic to Garibaldi and said that it would be in the Centauri interest to align themselves with the Earth Alliance as the Earth Alliance were the new sharks in galactic politics. I would think that this version of the Centauri joined the Federation out of self-interest. There are some dangerous races out there, the Romulans and the Klingons in particular - if the Centauri don't "gang" up with the humans, vulcans, tellarites and andorians, they could be faced with conquest and destruction...so they joined the Federation not out of altruism but of self-interest. But in the last 200 years the Centauri have been "assimilated" into the Federatin mainstream and while many still have memories of the great "empire" they're just Federation citizens first with a proud sense of history.

[redwood973]

Originally posted by ghosty
The one problem I do have is that the Centauri Republic is an "empire" which implies a multi-system polity (which was what the B5 Centauri are). If the Centauri are from Alpha Centauri, then Earth (as the closest sun to Alpha Centauri) would have been part of the said empire...food for thought there...and wouldn't have first contact been with the local "superpower" and not the Vulcans...more food for thought.

This was covered in the original post. . .don't remember which part. It said something about the Centauri leaving earth alone because they thought themselves related to humans.

I was just thinking of something Londo Mollari said in the pilot. He was bemoaning the tottering state of the Centauri Republic to Garibaldi and said that it would be in the Centauri interest to align themselves with the Earth Alliance as the Earth Alliance were the new sharks in galactic politics. I would think that this version of the Centauri joined the Federation out of self-interest. There are some dangerous races out there, the Romulans and the Klingons in particular - if the Centauri don't "gang" up with the humans, vulcans, tellarites and andorians, they could be faced with conquest and destruction...so they joined the Federation not out of altruism but of self-interest. But in the last 200 years the Centauri have been "assimilated" into the Federatin mainstream and while many still have memories of the great "empire" they're just Federation citizens first with a proud sense of history.

Excelent! I will use this idea in the revision I am working on. This makes the B/5 Centauri a little easier for me to swallow in a Trek universe.

I do hope our group decides to use them. . .like Phoenix said, I like the way the founding five (with the B/5 Centauri) represent IDIC.

[redwood973]

The Centauri


Homeworld: Alpha Centauri IV [Centauri Prime].

Appearance and Physiology
Centauri are bipedal mammals which appear similar to humans in most respects, and they even claimed to be related until DNA tests showed otherwise. While Centauri look similar to humans they are genetically incompatible. The Centauri males wear their hair up, in a pronounced crest and Centauri females are usually bald, this is not a genetic trait but rather a style. Males wear their hair up and fanned out as a symbol of their status. The taller the crest, the more prominent position held. Females generally shave their heads, except for a pony-tail at the back of their head.

There are quite obvious internal differences in human and Centauri physiology: the Centauri have two hearts. The right heart is much the same as a human heart. The left heart is smaller and is in fact thousands of veins intertwined that help cleanse the blood, much like the human kidney, and helps provide extra pressure. The average life span of the Centauri is ninety to one hundred-ten earth years.

Society
The Centauri are a decadent people. Their dress and forms of decoration tend to be excessive, to the point of being gaudy. They exhibit overindulgence as a rule. In addition to their lust, gluttony, and other love for vices, the Centauri are masterful politicians. Centauri look down on Klingons, believing them a primitive people with little foresight.

How eminent an individual Centauri is in the highly aristocratic society is very much dependent on his family wealth and history. Unions between families are a common way to gain power and prestige. Marriages are almost always arranged and they are often used to strengthen the unions between families. The society is not so much based on a caste system as it is based on economy.

Political Structure
The Centauri Republic is ruled by an emperor; along with a governing body called the Centaurum. The highest power (at least in theory) is held by the emperor, who is held in the highest regard. The Emperor is essentially the social and spiritual leader of the Centauri Republic, whose wisdom is greater than all others. . .even when this is not the case.

In reality the power is often held by the noble families in the form of the Centaurum. Answerable only to the emperor, this body is divided into many factions. The Centaurum appoints the Republics ambassadors, and chooses the successor to the Republics throne.

They are not called the Centauri republic for nothing; the actions of politicians in the Republic are reminisent of those of ancient Rome on earth. Although immoral activity (murder, blackmail, conspiracy) are no longer the approved way of improving ones rank, as in the old Republic, most Centauri nobles frequently use their position to further their own goals, in particular raising their standing within the Centaurum with hopes of joining the royal court, and possibly even becoming emperor.

There are also several ministers who take care of the bureaucracy.

Religion
There are several gods in the Centauri pantheon ranging from Li, the hermaphrodite god of passion, to Ilaros, the protector of gamblers and goddess of luck. There are also a few past emperors who have been elevated to godhood. The most important deity, however, is the one referred to as the ‘great maker.’

Technology
Centauri takes great pride in its terraforming technology, which has proven invaluable to the Federation. The Centauri helped restore Earth’s environment after World War III with the ‘Renewal Project’ and enabled the Federation to colonize dozens of worlds.

While humans had primitive holographic technology for centuries, it was a Centauri scientist who pioneered true holoroom technology. Though holorooms have come a long way from the first holographic projectors used on Centauri Prime, the application for science, medicine and entertainment remain a source of great pride for Centauri. Some fellow crew members even complain that when a Centauri is off duty, there is no chance for anyone else to use a holodeck.

History
One of the founding members of the Federation, they are in fact its greatest supporters. The Centauri had founded an “empire” of twenty-eight planets (and one space station in orbit of Epsilon Eridani III) two hundred years before first contact with Earth. Although Earth was well within the Centauri sphere of influence, Earth was left alone; Centauri believing themselves related to humans.

At the height of the Republics power the Centauri encountered a less evolved race called the Klingons and annexed the Klingon homworld to the Republic. Qo’noS was a paradise and the planets native population welcomed the Centauri as gods. The Centauri took full advantage of this and during the next hundred years they enslaved the people and stripped the planet of its natural resources.

Fifty years before Earths’ Third World War political bickering filled the Centaurum, colonial governors conspired against the emperor and civil unrest began to take there toll; the powerful Centauri Republic was falling apart. Many of the worlds the Centauri had conquered had become resentful of Centauri rule. Marches and protests were staged across the whole of the Republic. What began as discontent among the indigenous population of conquered worlds, became open rebellion. Territorial governors, fearful of losing their standing in the Centaurum, attempted to hide the growing strife. This only served to spur civil unrest until many worlds began to over throw their Centauri rulers.

The Klingons proved themselves to be a great deal of trouble. No sooner had the Centauri occupational forces moved in, than the Klingons began making trouble. Though seemingly peaceful, Klingon culture was based strongly on the concept of a warrior code. As the years stretched on, the Centauri were forced to poor more and more resources into controlling Qo’noS. Eventually it became a matter of will, the Centauri willingly allowing other holdings to slip from their fingers in an attempt to maintain control of one world. Eventually, having striped Qo’noS of everything of value and unwilling to continue pouring valuable resources into maintaining control of a dead planet, the Centauri withdrew form Qo’noS. As Centauri lost control of Qo’noS, so did they lose what little respect the other worlds had for them.

Members of the Centaurum, not wanting to take the responsibility or blame for the problems, turned on each other; and the Centauri military found itself unable to reassert control. Many subject races, using older ships that had once been part of the Centauri Navy, attacked the Centauri fleet in defiance. With their forces stretched too thin to effectively deal with the situation, many Centauri ships were destroyed in skirmish after skirmish. Within forty years of the first uprising, the Centauri Republic fell in upon itself.

By the time of first contact with Earth the once great Centauri Republic, long rotted by decadence, wasn’t much more than a joke in interstellar politics. The "Great Lion of the Galaxy" had become a tired, toothless old cat who could make a fierce roar and little else. The Centauri Republic had fell into decline; they were more interested in boisterous celebrations and revelry than anything more serious. To them wealth and rank were the most important things in life. No longer any sort of interstellar power, to help prop up their fading republic the Centauri found it in their best interest to join the Federation. The changes in Centauri society were noticeable long before first contact with Earth, but since joining the Federation Centauri have been assimilated into the Federation mainstream [the Centauri Emperor, during the celebrations following the signing of the Federation Charter, told an Earth ambassador, “We Centauri live our lives for appearances: position, status, title. These are the things by which we define ourselves. But when I look beneath the mask I am forced to wear, I see only emptiness.” Few Centauri wear the grand hair crests of old, prefering a much smaller crest as a symbol of their culture; a few having grown up with stories and legend of the once proud Republic burn with the passion to see the Old Republic reborn.

Centauri maintain a close relationship with humans, perhaps owing to their similar appearances. Zefram Cochrane, the first human to develop warp drive, retired to Centauri Prime, where he explored its culture and sciences. Humans encountered the Centauri shortly after first contact with Vulcan, and Centauri helped found the United Federation of Planets (more out of self interest than any noble cause). Their knowledge of bio-systems and terraforming helped the Federation establish colonies throughout Alpha Quadrant. Many consider Centauri Prime one of the most beautiful planets in the galaxy, and its people gladly helped the citizens of Earth restore their planet after the devastation of World War III.

The Centauri remain a steady member of the Federation. They rarely assume leadership roles on the Federation Council (preferring Centauri politics), but always remain heavily involved in the Council’s decisions. Centauri have a long-term view of actions and like to weigh throughly important matters. This sometimes leads to accusations of foot-dragging and excessive debate particularly in times of crises.

The Centauri Template
Attributes
Fitness 2 [5]
Coordination 2 [5]
Intellect 2 [5]
----Perception +1
Presence 2 [6]
Psi 0 [5]

Skills
Artistic Expression (choose) 2 (3) OR
Science, Any (choose) 2 (3)
Charm (choose) 1 (2)
Culture (Centauri) 2 (3)
History (Centauri) 1 (2)
Language
----Centauri 2
Science, Social (Political Science) 1 (2)
Weapon, Primitive (Sword) 1 (2)
World Knowledge (Centauri Prime) 1 (2)

Traits
Organ Redundancy (Two Hearts) (+2); Sexy (+2); Species Enemy (Klingon) (-3); Vengeful (-1)

[pesterfield]

Kira says something to the effect that: "From there the Dominion is in a position to attack Vulcan, Andoria, Tellar and Alpha Centauri."

Now the first three are homeworlds of Federation founders, then why would she mention Alpha Centauri if that wasn't the case with the Centaurans as well? Maybe Alpha Centauri is in a very important strategic location

Maybe Alpha Centauri is in a strategic location? It's four light years from Terra and that fact makes it the closest possible staging point for attacks into the Sol system.

However it does seem strange that at least three founding worlds are within striking distance of Betazed, you'd think some colonies would be between some of them.

[Owen E Oulton]

The biggest problem I see with trying to fit the B-5 races into the Trek universe is that in order to do so you really must strip away most of what makes the B-5 universe tick. As with Larry Niven's Kzinti in his Known Space series, the a defining factor in the development of the Human race in B-5 is a terrible, devastating war with the Minbari.
You either have to alter the history of the Federation out of all recognition, or utterly change the nature of the Minbari. I'm playing a version of Star Trek I wish to keep as close as possibnle to the established universe, so the former is out of the question, and the latter involves altering the Minbari to a point where they are merely another funky-headed generic alien race.

My preferred way to incorporate such crossovers is to either have the whole she-bang happen outside Federation space, with yet-another-clone-of Earth (citing TOS's Hodgkin's Law of Parallel Planetary Development), or to place them in an alternate universe. In fact, had my pre-TOS USS Excalibur campaign gone ahead, I planned on doing an interdimensional crossover with the Excalibure of 2261 dropping into the events of the B-5 series. Maybe someday...

[Phoenix]

redwood973

IMO I wouldn't write the Centauri in as the Hur'K. The Hur'k had an empire that stretched into the Gamma Quadrant (DS9 ep., I forget the name, "The Sword of Kaless"?). Also relations with the Federation would not have been so good in the TNG if one of the founding members had been the plunderers of the Klingon Homeworld, retribution would have been demanded. As far as who could have been the conquered species that led to the fall of the empire...I haven't a clue. The species should not be one of modern importance (i.e. from TOS through DS9 time frame).

Personal interjections on the Hur'k, I've come to think of the Orions as the last portion of that pan-galactic empire. The Centauri may have been around in the galactic society long enough to have known about them, or even had direct contact with them, enough to try picking up the pieces of their decadent empire and breath life back into it, hence the concept of "In the grand old days of the Republic..." before the Centauri took the reins of the slowly dying horse known as the Republic Empire. (edit: All this pending the concept of the 4 different species susposedly native to the Orion System - Green Orions, Ruddy Orions (non-canon), Rigelians (Vulcanoids?), and the Hylar (sp?) the Greens were in-slaved by the Ruddies who were the last of the Hur'k)

Hmm, I think I'm starting to like this new concept here...:evil grin:
Thought? Flames?

[redwood973]

Originally posted by Phoenix
IMO I wouldn't write the Centauri in as the Hur'K. Also relations with the Federation would not have been so good in the TNG if one of the founding members had been the plunderers of the Klingon Homeworld, retribution would have been demanded.

Sorry, but who are the Hur'K? I assume from the DS9 reference it is from that show. (I was unable to be a regular viewer of DS9.)

So far it has worked out fairly well. It gives a good background for the Federation/Klingon hostilities of TOS [the Klingons associated the Federation with a new revitalized Centauri Republic not realizing that it was Centauri that was assimulated into the Federation, not the other way around], and really gives substance to the dramatics of what needed to be overcome for the close friendship of TNG [there maybe still some tension, the Centauri beliving the Klingons primitve, the Klingons believing the Centauri are without honor].

All this pending the concept of the 4 different species susposedly native to the Orion System - Green Orions, Ruddy Orions (non-canon), Rigelians (Vulcanoids?), and the Hylar (sp?) the Greens were in-slaved by the Ruddies who were the last of the Hur'k)

I dont have access to the CODA stuff so I am limited to ICON species (unless these are available here on TrekRPGNet).

[Edit Note--oh wait, Green and Ruddy Orions, that is a FASA reference correct? Don't have that either I'm afraid.]

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by redwood973
Sorry, but who are the Hur'K? I assume from the DS9 reference it is from that show. (I was unable to be a regular viewer of DS9.)

Who were the Hur'k? is the question...that was left up in the air...grr...but they inslaved the Klingons, looted the planet, and ended up with the "Sword of Kaless" in a musium in the Gamma Quad.

Originally posted by redwood973
So far it has worked out fairly well. It gives a good background for the Federation/Klingon hostilities of TOS [the Klingons associated the Federation with a new revitalized Centauri Republic not realizing that it was Centauri that was assimulated into the Federation, not the other way around], and really gives substance to the dramatics of what needed to be overcome for the close friendship of TNG [there maybe still some tension, the Centauri beliving the Klingons primitve, the Klingons believing the Centauri are without honor].

Sounds like it is working well in your game.

Originally posted by redwood973
I dont have access to the CODA stuff so I am limited to ICON species (unless these are available here on TrekRPGNet).

[Edit Note--oh wait, Green and Ruddy Orions, that is a FASA reference correct? Don't have that either I'm afraid.]

FASA indeed, I also do not have the new CODA materal. As far as available on Trek-RPG-Net I think there is something about them on the main site...species database?

[Owen E Oulton]

Phoenix wrote:
"Who were the Hur'k? is the question...that was left up in the air...grr...but they inslaved the Klingons, looted the planet, and ended up with the "Sword of Kaless" in a musium in the Gamma Quad."

Hur'q (note the correct spelling) is the Klingon word for "outsider" or "stranger." They are an extinct race who one conquered Qo'noS. No evidence was give that they had an empire which stretched from Qo'noS to the Gamma Quadrant - just that they had an outpost in the Gamma Quadrant and raided as far as the Beta Quadrant. It could well be that they were a Gamma Quadrant race who learned of the Wormhole and used it to pillage the Alpha and Beta quadrants.

Speculation that they are the ancestors of the Orions seems to me to be countered by the fact that Dax was able to isolate Hur'q DNA and never commented on any similarity to that of Orions. (If the concept tickles your fancy, however, there's nothing to stop you from running with it.)

The Hur'q invasion happened 1000 years pre-DS9 (call it about 1475ce), about 400 years after Kahless.