Ground Forces Idea

[Captain Zymmer]

I am thinking of having the UFP call into effect an actual standing military (read army) that would not be part of Starfleet.

What do you think would be a good name for these forces?

[Captain Zymmer]

Ohh!

Just had a thought

What if it was like a National Guard?

So a Federation Guard.

Volunteer, and rotating service.

Planets can choose whether or not they have a Guard branch on thier world.

This would be the compromise instead of a standing army garrisoned throught the UFP.

Hmmmmm....

[ghosty]

I thought most Federation member worlds have their own fleet and defence forces. The Vulcans definately have one and I very much doubt the Andorians would do without one. I mean they also have their own intelligence and security services. While these forces are relatively small, they are an important supplement to Starfleet.

So there's no need to raise a standing military which is outside of Starfleet because they already exist. I'm sure there are provisions in the UFP charter which allows the member world militaries to be "federalized" in wartime to support and supplement Starfleet.

[Captain Zymmer]

Yes yes, but the idea is that some Hawks and paranoids after the DW feel a unified ground force of some kind is needed, etc...

I could see the Vulcan's going agianst this idea to be sure.

The idea that would get settled on would be a Federation Guard that would be trained in a common way and supplied with Starfleet level tech, etc

I am against a standing Army, but a Fed wide defense force I can see.

[ghosty]

With a standing ground force under Starfleet, a separate planetary defence force is unecessary. Most of the inner worlds, the core member worlds and old colonies, would have the population base and tech base to equip a militia on Starfleet levels. The outer colonies probably won't have the population base to support any form of military so it'll have to rely on Federation units anyway.

At the moment with ground forces as part of Starfleet there is an element of unity of command. Starfleet would also assume authority over all "federarilzed" planetary defence forces. To add a separate ground force would just add a new chain of command and a stovepipe command structure (ie. separate chains of command) is rarely efficient and just becomes bureaucractic and confused.

The US armed forces faced that problem in the late 1970s which led to the unified command structure of the regional commanders-in-chief who have final authority over all the four services in their command area under the Secretary of Defence and the President. The individual service chiefs have no command authority except to ensure that the regional CINCs get the resources they need.

[Captain Zymmer]

Makes sense, but I am also looking at a a lack of confidence by certain member worlds in Starfleet and their abilityt o respond to quickly. As evidented in the Dominion War, certain worlds (like Betazed for example) feel that having a standing military force would be a better idea.

To prevent all these planets from suddenly forming up armies (which could lead to certain politcal and military problems down the road) the UFP Proposes the idea of a "Federation Guard", to make sure the council has some control over it.

Again, by being a volunteer service, it is not "standing persay" but alble to assemble quickly in response.

A joint-chiefs-of-staff would be a fine idea, with one guy acting as head of the Guard...a Marshall fo some kind I would guess.



Again this is jsut an idea.

Also, I live in a country where the government thought htye made a good diea leaving most of our military as navy, and suddenly found itself rushing to "re-up" soldiers they "laid off" just 3 years ago. And while I see the comparison of the American military as enlgihtening, I don't see their mistakes or lessons learned as necessarily the hard and fast rules for the 24th century. But, again, we do need a comparative to base it off of I suppose.

[ghosty]

Most Federation member worlds, the core ones anyway already have their own army and fleet for local defence. But some don't. That may explain why Vulcan was so well defended, Starfleet was supplemented by the Vulcan Defence Force and why Betazed fell so easily.

Remember that Starfleet has at its core Earth's "Starfleet" which fought the Romulan War and became the basis of the Federation Starfleet.

The way Starfleet is structured and organized, it is strongly indicative that it owes its roots to the Anglo-American military services which in any event were the dominant naval power of earth for centuries. So its quite obvious that Starfleet was organized by ex-US or British/Commonwealth officers when the united Earth government was formed. Hence the drawbacks of their 20th century problems would be in the forefront of their minds when they had to opportunity to design a new force from the ground up.

[Captain Zymmer]

Good point sir!

Still I think this diea will work, especially as we see the 24th Century Federation head towards a more uniform society...despite its claims to be seeking individuals, they are social assimilators...like root beer...insideous.

Anyone else wanna jump in here?

[ghosty]

I don't know, I think its going to turn into anyone of those discussions between ye and me.

[Captain Zymmer]

Well they aren't so bad are they Ghosty?

[Phantom]

How about The Peacekeepers. Effectiveness measured in body count...Oh, sorry wrong game.

I'll just go over here.

Peace through overwhelming firepower! CLICK...Anyone got a problem with that.

[StyroFoam Man]

This message has been removed on request by the
poster

[JALU3]

Currently what is held as true but the majority of people on the net so far on this issue, it is believed that the Federation has a Ground Force, much like the modern Marines of the RN and the USN, and the RRT, much like modern specialized infantry (Rangers in the USA (US Army (Spelled backward it stands for Y my retarted @ss signed up))) or Special Forces (SAS in the British Army). However, compared to the size of the Federation and the fleet, these forces are small and far apart.

I had the initial idea that the Ground Forces (I called them Marines) actually were "Federationalized" Planetary Defense Force units that were on a rotation, say 3 to 9 months in peace time, as to better train those forces for times of combat. Or were "Federationalized" units that remained that way after the Dominion War as to create this new standing force structure. However, the idea of a standing Army in the Federation rather doesn't keep in the spirit of the Federation. However, I can see the necessity of that.
For like the Modern Armies, we no longer raise armies, but keep standing armies due to the fact that in disbanding a service or greatly reducing it, a Nation/Federation shall lose Logistical cabalities, deteriate the readiness of the force, cause unneeded lag time as to raise the army and properly train them. However, the most important reason why to keep a standing army is to maintain the doctoral knowledge, and training level that comes with a standing army. For in disbanding an army would cause a decrease in training umong the small standing force due to a decrease in funding and the peacetime footing, and knowledge would be lost due to the fact that it is not practiced on and reviewed in depth.
But all that I have typed in that last paragraph is besides the point.

Back on track, an idea of a National Guard/Reserves (which are both seperate command structures themselves (NG is State)(Reserves are Federal)) would be a good idea, as it would maintain the force structure and thus keep doctoral knowledge intact and continue training. Granted training wouldn't be as great as a standing army, however, the knowledge and the experiences that were learned would be preserved, which is the most important part of it all.
How one would organize it is beyond me, however, it is a good idea. I would rather keep with the NG set up where undernormal conditions they are forces of the State (in this case the Planet/Colony) and are used within that state for the most part. However, the can be "Federationalized" upon an executive order by the President. This would create a command where all the current, and future, PDF GFs would fall under and would make a command structure that is coherent, as some current PDF command structures may be confusing to others (so a grade system would be assigned for all GFs to follow as for other PDG GFs would know who is what when "Federalized").


Starfleet

IMHO I don't think it would be rite to split starfleet like that. Rather create more combat ready/"Defense" oriented vessels, however keep the multirole capability that Starfleet is well known for. For example, the Akira is an obvious "Defense" oriented vessel however during times of peace, they Air Wing complement could be exchanged for more scouts and scientific oriented spacecraft, and the amount of labs could be increased in nonpermenant structures in the Hanger Bay.

Well I'm tired I didn't get much sleep last night, so I might add to this later. Bye everyone for now.

[Highway Hoss]

I mentioned this site before, but in lieu of the subject matter, I think it is appropriate.
A couple of Trek Webmasters put together a website called The Starfleet Military Reserves, which deals with this matter. It is set in the year 2380 and postulates the creation of a Unified defense force for the three major powers (Federation, Romulan and Klingon). The site contains a wealth of information including organization, uniforms, weaponry, technology and ships. It mentions the creation of an Aero/Ground division and includes ranks and insignia for ground forces.

[calguard66]

Any planet that felt the protection offered by Starfleet was insuficient would build up it's own defense forces.

Why would they rely on another Federation-level organization when Starfleet failed them in the first place?

Starfleet should have a signifigant ground-combat capability, more signifigant than is acknowleged on-screen. However, a separate ground combat force, in addition to Starfleet and the various planetary forces, is redundant. It would result in duplication of effort... duplicate training facitities, duplicate procurement programs, competition in recruiting, etc.

Better to spend the money/ resources improving the planetary forces which were so obviously neglected.