"Sleeping Dogs"-SPOILERS

[Admiral Wolf]

Bah ! B&B suck....I'm SICK of Klingons....we've seen them in damn near every ST series or movie...

B&B have a whole "unexplored" universe to mess with this time around...and what do they do...they beat us to death with friggin Klingons,about every 3 weeks...how many times have they shown up in Enterprise episodes so far.....yeah that's what I thought.

Bah !

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Dan Stack
Not my site, just a moderator. It's Don's baby. And he despises "Enterprise"!

Ahem. "Despise" is a pretty strong word (and emotion).

I don't care enough about Enterprise to despise it.

(And glancing through these threads reminds me of why I don't watch Enterprise. When they stop stooping to covering each other in bio-gel to raise more than just their ratings, someone let me know.)

[Greg Davis]

Originally posted by Don Mappin
When they stop stooping to covering each other in bio-gel to raise more than just their ratings, someone let me know.

Well, Don, would you be happier if they had women wearing too-short skirts? Perhaps a character with a low-cut, revealing top, who sits on the bridge? How about some kinky, Klingon love-smack? Or, better yet, how about a woman wearing a rather revealing catsuit?

Oh, wait...Enterprise IS doing that!

My point (and I think I have one) is that Enterprise isn't nearly pushing the envelope as much as other Trek series, in terms of sexuality, or sexual content. Sure, they've got the decontamination scenes, but isn't that tame when compared to other series that are geared at the same, basic demographic?

I'm not condoning Berman and Braga here, but rather pointing out that they're not the direct cause of the "problem" here (though I say problem in quotes, because I don't really see it as a problem).

For some reason, people seem to hate Enterprise. I still don't see why. All of the "valid" arguments that they make can be made for hating any of the series that followed The Original Series.

My point of view is this: It's Trek. I'm glad that Trek is on television, still. It's the best first-season I've seen, of any Trek series, thus far. If you hate it, then that's your perogative, but for those of us who enjoy it, there's no need to "rain on our parade".

Just my two cents on the issue that won't seem to die...



Greg

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Greg Davis
Or, better yet, how about a woman wearing a rather revealing catsuit?

Episode please!

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Greg Davis
My point (and I think I have one) is that Enterprise isn't nearly pushing the envelope as much as other Trek series, in terms of sexuality, or sexual content.

I was with you and agreeing with your points right up to this.

I'm going to call bullshit and point squarely at "Broken Bow." Suggestive dialog is one thing. So is having two women kiss is, or Troi in her blue bunny dress.

Having scantily-clad characters rubbing the equivilent of "love lotion" over each other while the camera tightly tracks their every motion over the other's body for no other purpose than to be titallating just doesn't support your arguement. There is a decontamination room. Okay. There's gel they have to use to decontaminate themselves. Okay. Now lets show T'Pol's ass and thigh! Hey, there's a tight shot of Reed's rippling bicep! Yea, all in the name of storytelling, right?

Does Star Trek contain sexuality? Clearly, it does. But it's also done so for the necessity of story or simply as a matter of something for the demographic to watch (Troi's bunny dress, Seven's corset-wearing, Dax in a bathing suit).

I think Enterprise, in its already short lifespan, has gone futher and needlessly only for the sake that sex sells. (And can make you overlook other shortcomings.)

[Phantom]

Aimed right smack at the lowest common denominator.

The TOS short skirts....Mini skirts were the "in" thing at the time. No big deal there.

TNG uniforms...Showed forms nicely. No problem there, particularly Shellby.

DS9-see above, but substitute Jadzia (later Ezri)

Enterprise-We just about hit blue movie level here.

Sure the uniforms worn by the female contingent were designed to "catch the eye", but things in Ent have fallen so far down hill it went right to the bottom of the barrel. When I saw the scene in question in first ep I thought "Ok interesting...But what does it have to do with the story?" Answer, NOTHING. The question is "what does it have to do with ratings? Answer, EVERYTHING.

I may as well end here, the whole debate is rather academic anyway, I don't watch the show anymore nor do I intend to in the future. I was looking forward to the Romulan War, but Beavis & Butthead (oh wait wrong B&B. Eh, works either way) will find some way to screw it up.

[Greg Davis]

Originally posted by Don Mappin
Having scantily-clad characters rubbing the equivilent of "love lotion" over each other while the camera tightly tracks their every motion over the other's body for no other purpose than to be titallating just doesn't support your arguement. There is a decontamination room. Okay. There's gel they have to use to decontaminate themselves. Okay. Now lets show T'Pol's ass and thigh! Hey, there's a tight shot of Reed's rippling bicep! Yea, all in the name of storytelling, right?

Sure, Don...just as much as Kirk's shirt getting ripped all the time, to show William Shatner's manly chest, was all in the name of storytelling. Or, how about the seemingly constant stream of scantily-clad women with whom Kirk seemed to "get his groove on" with, all the time. That was all in the name of storytelling, right?

I think Enterprise, in its already short lifespan, has gone futher and needlessly only for the sake that sex sells. (And can make you overlook other shortcomings.) [/B]

I'd buy that argument, Don, if there was anything worse on the show than the couple of decontamination scenes (in terms of overt sexuality, not withstanding the Vulcan catsuit). If there are, I haven't heard anyone mention them...

Does the series have problems? Sure, what series doesn't. Does the series seem to piss some fans off? Sure, what series hasn't. Does the series "feel" like Star Trek? Sure, just as much as a "Lost in Space" rip-off, or a series where the characters don't seem to "Trek" very far...

To me, "Enterprise" is Trek, and that's good enough for me.



Greg

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Greg Davis

I'd buy that argument, Don, if there was anything worse on the show than the couple of decontamination scenes (in terms of overt sexuality, not withstanding the Vulcan catsuit).

I don’t recall the camera being zoomed in enough to count the hairs on his (Kirk’s) chest or being able to tell the temperature of the room by the hardness of his nipple.

But hey, if that’s your kind of science fiction then ‘rock on.’ I can’t fault anyone for watching to see Jolene “Playing a Vulcan hides my lack of acting ability” Blalock in a tight catsuit!

Rrrrrrrooooowwww!

[TomMarg]

Ummm......remind me again how this became a thread on sex in trek?

Not that I'm complaining, seeing Jolene blalock in a catsuit, or better yet out of it would make my day. But I would'nt watch enterprise just for this reason..........well maybe.

[Dan Stack]

Originally posted by Don Mappin

Ahem. "Despise" is a pretty strong word (and emotion).

I don't care enough about Enterprise to despise it.

(And glancing through these threads reminds me of why I don't watch Enterprise. When they stop stooping to covering each other in bio-gel to raise more than just their ratings, someone let me know.)

I can truly understand the no-watch attitude. I didn't like Voyager all that much so I didn't have a lot to say about it. I caught an episode here or there, especially during reruns when word of mouth tended to indicate which episodes I would like.

For those who don't like a show, I don't quite understand the weekly sacrificial offering of an hour of your life for something you don't enjoy.

(As an aside, the biogel "rubdown" only happened in one episode. ))

[tonyg]

Why is it that every TREK series starts off with fans of the previous series as the most vocal detractors?

I heard these compaints with every TREK series, since TOS. First Season TNG wasn't very popular, or DS9 for that matter. Heck, a lot of people don't care much for TOS, and that is what started the whole thing.

I suspect if the internet existed back in the 1966 we be seeing posts objecting to TOS because:

1) All those leg and thigh shots of Grace Lee Whitney

2) Kirk's "breakway shirts"

3) Any cosutume desgned by Bill Thiess. After all they were made to look like they would fall apart.

4) Open-mouth kissing!

5) any show of clevage.

6) Use of the word "Damn"

Enterprise isn't any worse than the "typical" TREK series. Not much better or worse. So far. Where or not it does any better will depend on the stories and character development.

While the sex exists in the show, it exists in most other TV series as well. Sex sells. That why people on TV look the way they do.

Sure the "decontamination gel" is a bit farther that what has been in TREK in the past, but this IS nearly 40 years later. Stuff that was cosidered racy in 1966 gets into G rated films today.

[Michael Barratt]

Originally posted by qerlin
Actually, I think it falls in line with the TOS idea of how they acted. They certainly weren't the honorable warriors we were used to in teh later shows; that was more the TOS Romulans.

Y'know, to be totally honest, I think the Honorable Klingon is pretty much romanticized hooey. As Ezri pointed out, name me four or five honorable Klingons in the TNG/DS9/VOY era - or try to make me a list of the honorable ones vs. the dishonorable ones. If you ask me, the Klingons just got a better press agent.

The Doc