Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 42

Thread: "Sleeping Dogs"-SPOILERS

  1. 01-31-2002, 12:37 AM #1
    Angry_Cartman
    Angry_Cartman is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    61

    "Sleeping Dogs"-SPOILERS

    I just saw Enterprise;

    What's with Klingons already having Photon Torpedoes?!? Is Earth THAT much backwards?

    I loved however the look of the Raptor-class ship.

    But I dunno, Klingons are starting to get on my nerves; they're so jumpy and their sense of honor is twisted; Are they warriors or "high space brigands"? (as it was mentionned that they raided and stole from an outpost). At least they could have seen the "honor" in what the crew of the Enterprise accomplished for them.

    I think it was a very bad move from TPTB that they just cut'n'pasted TNG-era Klingons into Enterpise. We're used to seing them as Federation allies (well except for that time in DS9 when the treaty was abrogated) and being less antagonistic towards those who show demonstrate some sort of honorable behavior. I would have opted for a totally new look, half-way between the TOS look and the TNG look.
    Oh, better far to live and die
    Under the brave black flag I fly,
    Than play a sanctimonious part
    With a pirate head and a pirate heart!
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  2. 01-31-2002, 12:45 AM #2
    qerlin
    qerlin is offline Registered User
    Send a message via ICQ to qerlin
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM, USA
    Posts
    2,990
    Actually, I think it falls in line with the TOS idea of how they acted. They certainly weren't the honorable warriors we were used to in teh later shows; that was more the TOS Romulans.

    I liked most of this episode -- but then again I've gone from mega-nay sayer on the show to pretty appreciative.
    "War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

    John Stuart Mill
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  3. 01-31-2002, 07:38 AM #3
    Dan Stack
    Dan Stack is offline Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    MetroWest, MA USA
    Posts
    2,590
    I believe they are hoping for a "space viking" sort of concept for the Klingons. Even the new uniforms suggest this.

    The LUG TOS Core Rules made an interesting point about Japan. Compare Japan of 1870 vs Japan of 1940 vs Japan of 1990. Such enormous changes in their culture.

    In Enterprise the Klingons are little more than brigands, raiders, etc. Probably not much of a unified govermnent. It seems that the various houses are almost independent entities.

    In TOS the Klingons are a military dictatorship, almost as if some coup has taken place. Perhaps from the Klingon point of view it was needed - they could have been on the verge of civil war while the Federation is expanding in their direction.

    By TNG the Klingons seem to have evolved their warrior ethic into more of a strict code of behavior. They are more unified than they were in Enterprise, but nowhere near to the extent that they were in TOS. Almost like there are large poltical parties. They talk a lot about honor, but the most powerful Klingons are masters of appearances, of looking honorable.
    AKA Breschau of Livonia (mainly rpg forums)
    Gaming blog 19thlevel
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  4. 01-31-2002, 07:49 AM #4
    Kronok
    Kronok is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Detroit, MI
    Posts
    503
    WOW!!! That is an excellent set of examples to explain the Klingon’s Culture!!!! Thanx Dan!!!

    Anyway…

    Ship looked cool.
    Klingon chick was hot.
    Still mad they have Klingons on the show (Kirk was the First to meet them).
    Shower scene proves they need sex to improve ratings.

    By the way, how is the show doing as far as ratings?
    Kronok

    I am dead. As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives. This we do gladly because we are Jem’Hadar. Remember, victory is life.

    "The D20 System is the heart of the classic fantasy roleplaying experience, the game that has taught us all how to be munchkins. There is no way we could do it with any other system."
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  5. 01-31-2002, 07:58 AM #5
    Dan Stack
    Dan Stack is offline Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    MetroWest, MA USA
    Posts
    2,590
    Actually there is no evidence that Kirk was first to meet the Klingons - dialogue indicates there was a long period of hostility between the Klingons and Federation. Spock refers to something like "seventy years of war" in Star Trek VI, "Trouble with Tribbles" refers to the Battle of Donatu V taking place something like 20 years prior.

    As far as the main aliens of TOS and TNG...
    - Romulans - Kirk supposedly first to identify their appearance in "Balance of Terror" though we know there were the Earth Romulan Wars
    - Klingons - Evidence points to years of hostility.
    - Gorn - Evidence points to Kirk making first contact in "Arena"
    - Tholians - Evidence points to some prior contact - "renowned Tholian punctuality"
    - Cardassians - All we know is that the Federation has known of them for at least 20-30 years but possibly much longer. We know that Cardassians and Klingons have had contact for far longer.
    - Ferengi - Supposedly first official contact between the Federation and Ferengi was in "The Last Outpost". That said, evidence points to the Federation knowing some stuff about them. Picard unknowingly met them aboard the Stargazer at the Battle of Maxia. However, one appeared in the flashback scenes of "Tapestry", with Ensign Jean-Luc Picard
    - Breen - Unknown, though little should be known about them.
    - Nausicaans - Unknown - no evidence prevents their first appearance being in the 22nd century.
    - Vulcans - 21st century.
    - Andorians - Long-assumed to be Federation founder.
    - Dominion - First known encounter in DS9 Season 2.
    - Tellarite - long-assumed to be Federation founder.
    AKA Breschau of Livonia (mainly rpg forums)
    Gaming blog 19thlevel
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  6. 01-31-2002, 08:10 AM #6
    C5
    C5 is offline Registered User
    Send a message via ICQ to C5 Send a message via MSN to C5
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Paris, France, Earth
    Posts
    2,589
    Originally posted by Kronok
    Still mad they have Klingons on the show (Kirk was the First to meet them).
    What? Excuse my TOS ignorance, but I don't recall Kirk being the first to meet the Klingons. Romulans, yes, but I thought that when the Klingons are mentioned in TOS, it's as a rather long-known belligerant species.

    Yet I find sad they're putting that much Klingons into ENT. I'm still hoping however that they're just cramming every known species into the first seasons, to evolve into something more original in the following. One has its dreams...
    "The main difference between Trekkies and Manchester United fans is that Trekkies never trashed a train carriage. So why are the Trekkies the social outcasts?"
    Terry Pratchett
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  7. 01-31-2002, 08:10 AM #7
    Captain Blake
    Captain Blake is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Nashville, TN, USA
    Posts
    763
    Dan, that's brilliant.

    Thanks.

    Alex
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  8. 01-31-2002, 08:32 AM #8
    C5
    C5 is offline Registered User
    Send a message via ICQ to C5 Send a message via MSN to C5
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Paris, France, Earth
    Posts
    2,589
    Okay it seems this week I'm doomed to posting questions at the very same time somebody's answering.
    Thanks for this recap, Dan !
    "The main difference between Trekkies and Manchester United fans is that Trekkies never trashed a train carriage. So why are the Trekkies the social outcasts?"
    Terry Pratchett
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  9. 01-31-2002, 09:22 AM #9
    Kronok
    Kronok is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Detroit, MI
    Posts
    503
    Originally posted by C5


    What? Excuse my TOS ignorance, but I don't recall Kirk being the first to meet the Klingons. Romulans, yes, but I thought that when the Klingons are mentioned in TOS, it's as a rather long-known belligerant species.

    Yet I find sad they're putting that much Klingons into ENT. I'm still hoping however that they're just cramming every known species into the first seasons, to evolve into something more original in the following. One has its dreams...
    My bad, it was the Romulans. I thought it was the Klingons too, oh well.
    Kronok

    I am dead. As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives. This we do gladly because we are Jem’Hadar. Remember, victory is life.

    "The D20 System is the heart of the classic fantasy roleplaying experience, the game that has taught us all how to be munchkins. There is no way we could do it with any other system."
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  10. 01-31-2002, 10:40 AM #10
    OmegaOdd
    OmegaOdd is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Costa Mesa, CA, USA
    Posts
    34
    Originally posted by Dan Stack
    - Ferengi - Supposedly first official contact between the Federation and Ferengi was in "The Last Outpost". That said, evidence points to the Federation knowing some stuff about them. Picard unknowingly met them aboard the Stargazer at the Battle of Maxia. However, one appeared in the flashback scenes of "Tapestry", with Ensign Jean-Luc Picard
    And now it looks as if Archer, T'Pol and Trip will be making their acquainance aboard Enterprise.
    Peace...

    Dan (OmegaOdd)
    www.omegaodd.com
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  11. 01-31-2002, 08:18 PM #11
    TomMarg
    TomMarg is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    London, Ontario, Canada.
    Posts
    162
    "klingon birds of prey" (?????)

    "photon torpedoes" (???!!!!!!)


    It's getting worse by the show. ( IMO )

    No offense to the people who like this show, but I've had enough of b&b's lack of imagination. ( again in my opinion )

    No more 'enterprise' for me, unless I'm really, really bored.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  12. 01-31-2002, 08:24 PM #12
    Kronok
    Kronok is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Detroit, MI
    Posts
    503
    I am with you Tom.

    However, I am still going ot watch for one reason: It is Star Trek.

    Star Trek is like pizza…

    When it’s good, it’s really good.

    When it’s bad, it’s still pretty f@ckin’ good!!!
    Kronok

    I am dead. As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives. This we do gladly because we are Jem’Hadar. Remember, victory is life.

    "The D20 System is the heart of the classic fantasy roleplaying experience, the game that has taught us all how to be munchkins. There is no way we could do it with any other system."
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  13. 01-31-2002, 09:04 PM #13
    TomMarg
    TomMarg is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    London, Ontario, Canada.
    Posts
    162

    Kronok:

    True to a degree, but I don't want to help boost the show's ratings either ,( not that one person alone makes a difference here ) it will only give licence for b&b to continue cranking out more bad trek, instead of trying to improve it. Or at least have some sensible scenerio's/ tech / continuity.

    IMHO.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  14. 01-31-2002, 09:05 PM #14
    Dan Stack
    Dan Stack is offline Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    MetroWest, MA USA
    Posts
    2,590
    Hmmm...

    I'm not sure how the term photon torpedo ruined the episode. I can't think of any episode which indicated when the Klingons obtained that weaponry.

    Ditto with Bird of Prey. Yes, I know it originally referred to a Romulan vessel, but it was Star Trek III which did the damage there. Perhaps both refer to their vessels that way... Could just be a military term. British battleship. American battleship. World War I canon has been destroyed!

    Must be the Dr. Who fan in me which seeks to explain with such issues...
    AKA Breschau of Livonia (mainly rpg forums)
    Gaming blog 19thlevel
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  15. 01-31-2002, 09:25 PM #15
    Kronok
    Kronok is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Detroit, MI
    Posts
    503
    I guess it comes down to this….

    I am still upset by the fact that the BnB team bad-mouthed the fans about “Continuity Porn” and yet they are just using the previous “universe information” and screwing up the continuity in the name of creativity???

    I see little creativity in the new series.

    They could have done the same thing with a new series in a new area of the galaxy with a new ship and a new crew with new aliens, but BnB do not have the creativity of a gnat.

    Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely….

    and if you give two geeks power and money and get them hot chicks….

    they feel like they possess too much power and have forgotten the fact that the fans made them and shouldn’t be messed with or put down with juvenile cut-downs.

    And if they truly possess creative abilities….????

    Write an original series with some iota of originality.
    Kronok

    I am dead. As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives. This we do gladly because we are Jem’Hadar. Remember, victory is life.

    "The D20 System is the heart of the classic fantasy roleplaying experience, the game that has taught us all how to be munchkins. There is no way we could do it with any other system."
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Forum Rules