View Poll Results: Size of the Federation

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  • Very Large: 19% Galaxy explored (TNG: The Dauphin)

    1 2.22%
  • Large: 10000/8000 ly across/area etc (enc/FirstContact)

    23 51.11%
  • Realistic: 1000 ly diametre

    13 28.89%
  • Small: 200+ ly Bajor area-DSK7 (DS9: Trials & Tribulations)

    6 13.33%
  • Very Small: Bajor-Earth 50.3 ly / Earth-Qo'nos 4 days

    2 4.44%
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Thread: MAPS:Debate 1: Size of the Federation

  1. #31
    Ok, after a little research (and talking with "Sir Map Maker" (by the way, when did you get knighted? ) this is the list of governments in the Alpha/Beta area.

    Acamarian, Bajor, Barzan, Boslic, Breen, Caldonian, Cardassian, Chalnoth, Federation, Ferengi, Gorn, J'Naii, Klingon, Kriosians, Ktarian, Lurians, Melkotian, Mizarian, Naussican, Pakled, Romulan, Satarran, Sheliak, S’ona, Tholian, Talarian, Tamarian, and lastly Tzenkethi

    All these political bodies are what I would say fill the 11 (or 19)% of the galaxy mentioned.
    Phoenix...

    "I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity,
    but maybe we should just remove all the safety lables and let nature take it's course"

    "A Place For Everything & Nothing In It's Place"

  2. #32
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    I had to go with Large...

    In one TOS episode that I clearly remember (the uninspired "Miri"), Kirk mentions that the Enterprise is "hundreds of light years from Earth".

    It's sure possible (in fact, it's likely) that Kirk & crew routinely explored outside the boundaries of Federation space. However, I doubt they explored more than 1 "Federation Diameter" outside their borders. There wouldn't be much point in going so far afield without studying and incorporating the intervening area (if appropriate). The Federation probably couldn't hold onto anything interesting it found that far out.

    This suggests to me that at that time, the border of Federation space was probably more than a hundred light years from Earth. And it's certain to have grown since then.

  3. #33
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    Re: I had to go with Large...

    Originally posted by Fesarius
    In one TOS episode that I clearly remember (the uninspired "Miri"), Kirk mentions that the Enterprise is "hundreds of light years from Earth".

    It's sure possible (in fact, it's likely) that Kirk & crew routinely explored outside the boundaries of Federation space. However, I doubt they explored more than 1 "Federation Diameter" outside their borders. There wouldn't be much point in going so far afield without studying and incorporating the intervening area (if appropriate). The Federation probably couldn't hold onto anything interesting it found that far out.

    This suggests to me that at that time, the border of Federation space was probably more than a hundred light years from Earth. And it's certain to have grown since then.
    Interesting

    In TOS they are definately 'way out' for instance TOS: Mudd's Women they go to Rigel which is way out on the frontier (using the real Rigel) that would be around 700-800 ly (depending on what star chart they used at the time).

    In another episode, TOS: Squire of Gothos they mention 900 ly as well.
    ST: Star Charts Guru
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  4. #34
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    Originally posted by SIR SIG


    Nothing's wrong with the math; just it would equal exactly 1 sector
    I didn't realize the sized of sectors was canon.

    In any case, it changes nothing. The Federation can be a cube 20 ly on a side and still "strech across 8000 ly".

    My point being, there is no way to tell how big the Federation is... as warp speed="the speed of plot", the Federation="the size of plot".
    “I am a soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight.”

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  5. #35
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    I appreciate your viewpoint Calguard but:

    a) Sectors are at least 20ly across on one edge (various sources) [perhaps this explains the 20x40 ly sectors from DS9? not a cube but a rectangular prism]

    b) Although ironically 20ly cube would equal 8000 ly cubed. I find it almost impossible that the Federation could be contained in 1 sector for over 200 years growth. Although this could simply be the 20ly radius from Sol as the core worlds to!

    Hopefully Geoff Mandel's star charts will shed some light on this
    ST: Star Charts Guru
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  6. #36
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    OKay I am confused...math was never my strong suit.

    So if the sector is 20lyx20lyx20ly how many sectors would there be in the Federation?

  7. #37
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    Well the highest canon mentioned sector on screen is in the 32000 range.

    Although common activity seems to centre around the 1000-10000 range.

    I explored a spiral association pattern of sector arrangement sometime ago to explain how farflung sectors could easily be reached.

    This was the basis of my earlier 'large' maps. Newer maps use a variation of this.
    ST: Star Charts Guru
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  8. #38
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    So if the sectors were all laid out like that Square map from the TNG Officer's Guide, the Federation could be 20,000 ly by 20,000 ly? And that is the conservative estimate?

    Am I off base here?

    This is the map I am talking about.

    http://www.stdimension.de/Cartograph...e/map_mw3d.gif

    It seems to me that the Klingons and romulans only have about a Sector each... Or am I misreading the map?

  9. #39
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    Well if I understand this map, the Romulan and Klingon sectors we see are the ones where their respective homeworlds are. There could be many more sectors behind, only they don't appear on the map.

    This is how I see it anyway.
    BTW, this map's UFP core world locations seem to differ significantly from some of the locations from the maps referred to on this thread.
    "The main difference between Trekkies and Manchester United fans is that Trekkies never trashed a train carriage. So why are the Trekkies the social outcasts?"
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  10. #40
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    Are yes, here the 'great' canon map as seen in TNG and slightly modified in DS9.

    Its a picture only! Sizes and stellar locations are not accurate in the least.

    Not unless they've used the negative print maps from the SFTM.

    ie. if you rotated it on its core/rim axis; then it would be more in line with standard maps except for a couple of stars and the Klingons location.

    In this particular case the 'sectors' might actually be the 'sector grids'. Which according to Rick Sternbach via Geoff Mandel are:

    "...the largest unit in Rick's scheme is a "sector grid," about 5,000
    ly x 3,600 ly x 4,500 ly. Ultimately, it gets broken down (in 3D, of course)
    into sectors about 20 ly on a side.
    "

    Of course its probably a pretty picture that was never meant to be scrutinized.
    ST: Star Charts Guru
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  11. #41

    sigh...

    I apologies in advance if this upsets anybody.

    Out of all the "canon" maps I've seen, this on has to be the second worst example of Trek consistency (the first is the overhead view where the Federation covers some 30% of the galaxy in trapazoid like areas). This is just my opinion though, if you like it, use it.

    If my memory is correct, the systems on the original map didn't have lables, did they?

    On an unrelated note, is the "First Federation" independent from the "United Federation of Planets", or are they now part of the same political body "The Federation"?
    Phoenix...

    "I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity,
    but maybe we should just remove all the safety lables and let nature take it's course"

    "A Place For Everything & Nothing In It's Place"

  12. #42
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    Yes both these 'canon' maps were nothing more then 'eye candy' in the mapping sense

    I believe the map in question with the 'sectors' was done up by the author of the Sector 001 website.

    In other news:

    The First Federation is a race met in TOS named that and never heard from again
    ST: Star Charts Guru
    aka: The MapMaker


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  13. #43
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    So when can we expect to see the next SIGnificant changes in your maps? It's about time for another iteration...ain't it?
    "War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

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  14. #44
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    Infact I already have a new map in progress

    That shows the relationship between Earth and Bajor and the DW.

    I could post a prelim if anyone is interested???

    Especially when Bajor is but a scant 4 or so sectors away from Earth.

    ps: As many have seen before, I make the most out of the material to hand with the reality of an Astonomical background. In some cases YMMV!
    ST: Star Charts Guru
    aka: The MapMaker


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  15. #45
    Originally posted by SIR SIG
    Yes both these 'canon' maps were nothing more then 'eye candy' in the mapping sense
    No argument there.

    In other news:

    The First Federation is a race met in TOS named that and never heard from again
    Damn shame that, the concept was a great one, a non-hostile large govenrment, next to the Federation. However after re-reading my post I guess I should have mentioned something about 'what everyones opinion was', should The First Federation be seperate or part of the UFP? It's been ages sense I've seen the episode (Corbinite Manuver?), so the exact dialoge from the end has faded from my memory.
    Phoenix...

    "I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity,
    but maybe we should just remove all the safety lables and let nature take it's course"

    "A Place For Everything & Nothing In It's Place"

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