Globalize Resistance

[qerlin]

Trying to do this in brief, if no response, I probably agree with you:

Diversity: actually, I agree with you. I thought the manifesto was simply to idealistic on this point.

Alternate solutions: if you're gonna state you have 'em, show 'em.

Communism & the anti-global guys: you are right. There are multiple movements. I'm busting on THIS one. And yes, liberal/ capitalist thought is an old movement, and imperfect. But it gives people IMO a whole lot more options than doing what the government tells you.

Environment...the big bugaboo here. The idea if we don'd do something RIGHT NOW we won't be able to repair the planet is patently false. Human -- and specifically industrial -- influence on the environment is an eyeblink in geological time. The planet's self-equilibrating. 50 years, a 100 years...too short to say definitively this ins't mostly natural in occurance. And if that's the case, there ain't much we can do.

War and the big bad military complex. Most of these guys would still be fighting without the military companies. BUT....I agree, there are other products they could be making that might be more useful. I've seen conflict up close and personal. I wouldn't mind if it was stopped. But I'm not optimistic.

Actually, dude...I think the IMF is the devil. But if you're stupid enough to deal with the devil, I place the blame on you (not YOU), not the guy with the horns.

"You take for granted people would want to live in such a system..." Yup, I do. I know I'm wrong, but my life philosophy is suceed and fail on your own merits. I don't take financial aid for school. I have no interest in the government takeing care of me. I prefer self-reliance.

Asian sweatshops -- I'll rephrase, most Western countries do not allow slavery or servitude. As for the Asian sweatshops...the promblem is the governments in those regions (and why, I would suggest, many people try to flee TO the West.)

[qerlin]

Angola -- true, much of the mines are currently held by UNITA (they're a cuddly bunch...) I won't give my opinion on Africa and its governments publicly.

Legitimacy of loans. Legitimacy as only legally legitimate...of course. Moral legitimacy, that the just/unjust thing. We're pretty much in synch here.

Biodiversity -- Nature & evolution work on a system of increasing returns. The most successful systems succeed. The other forms of information tkat become obsolete will eventually be pared out...naturally. The same is true to information stored neuronally or electronically: the crap gets dumped. EVolution continues at an ever increasing pace because of the increased order in the system. That's what evolution is all about; creating order against the disorder around it. (Good book for this sor tof thing, BTW: Ray Kurzweils The Age of Spiritual Machines. Interesting reading.)

The cultural thing. What is a successful culture? Yes...it is one that can compete and establish dominance over another. It might not seem nice or right, but that is success. (See the first posting of this bunch of junk I wrote.)

Taxes -- sorry, really disagree. Having sen government inefficiency close up, I still think the money is better spent by the people who make it, not by some bureaucrat far away (or even close).

As for capitalism. I don't have blind faith in anything: my fellow man, govenrments, corporations...save that they will try to get ahead at other people's expense. Captialism does need a hand on the tiller. That hand should be deomcratic government, preferably as small and unobtrusive as possible.

But beware of the tyranny of the masses, as well.

Overall, I though JT brought up some great points. I think he broadsided me on a few of my arguments. This is what I was hoping for; intelligent debate.

Kudos!

[J. Maynard]

Lightcastle wrote:

“I've got to ask a question, though. Have you read any John Ralston Saul?”

Actually, no. I may have to correct this soon.


To qerlin

This is the beauty of cultural diversity, the ability to experience different visions, and to test our own.

[darkwing duck1]

I'm going to throw an idea in here and see how it flies:

It seems to me that both the Communist and Capitalist ideals have a common (perhaps fatal) flaw: they presume that people are "perfect" in a sense. Communism assumes that all people will "do their duty to society" and produce at an optimal rate simply because it is their duty.

Capitalism assumes that no one ever takes advantage of the system or of other people to grab more of the resources of society than they need. (Some capitalist theories avoid the issue altogether by simply assuming there are infinite resources to be had in society.)

Both assumptions happen to be wrong.

[qerlin]

I agree.

[Capt.Hunter]

To answer the reply to my post.

Actually, I was speaking of a system where people don't want more than they've got because what they have is perfectly satisfactory.

I fully agree that the chances of getting the population of the Western world into that state are about the same as Enterprise actually sticking to established canon...

Still, a system where everyone has the same basic resources allocated (and that means everyone, not just citizens of richer nations) as a starting point. Then, if you want a bigger car, you can go out and work for it. On the other hand, if you don't want to work, you don't have to and you still get a reasonably comfortable lifestyle. That sort of system should ensure no-one feels cheated, because they all start out the same and anyone envious of their neighbour's bigger house only has themselves to blame - they could go out and work and earn it. As long as the pay system for work done is fair and across-the-board (no more companies buying local produce from Third World countries for a pittance), and everyone gets the same opportunities for work, then the system runs smoothly.

Hmmm, sounds like the Federation economy...

So, remove all inequalities from the system and have a truly global economy where everyone gets the same deal. That's the best possible system.

WARNING! PERSONAL BITCHING ALERT!!

Then you don't get fat-arsed managers and pen-pushers who get paid £40K a year for hardly any work while highly-qualified people like myself (I'm just completing a Ph.D. in genetics) can only look forward to a £20K salary in their first post. Heck, even the train operators over here get paid more than me, and they're always running late!!!

BITCH OVER. RELAX - DEEP BREATHS...