Insignia are great, but...

[Paul]

I've noticed that, both on TrekRPGNet, and Owen's website, that there is a comprehensive inclusion of rank and insignia.

It's great work (just thought I'd say that, first. )

However, both listings are lacking - there is no insignia shown for the Warrant Officer, nor for Chief Warrant Officers CLass 1-4.

Is this a deliberate omission, or an oversight?

[Dan Stack]

The Bridgetown portion of my site has warrant officer ranks. I got them from Tango Fleet.

[AslanC]

As do I on the Lexington site

http://www.usslexington.net/st_ranks.html

[Paul]

Thanks, guys. Most helpful.

[Owen E Oulton]

There's a simple reason for the non-inclusion of warrant officer ranks in my Relic site - I don't use 'em. Trek has never established that Starfleet has 'em.

If I were to use 'em, I'd likely go for dull silver metal pips similar to officers' gold pips.

[Dan Stack]

Originally posted by Owen E Oulton
There's a simple reason for the non-inclusion of warrant officer ranks in my Relic site - I don't use 'em. Trek has never established that Starfleet has 'em.

That's ok, I have friends from the US navy who wish the navy would get rid of warrant officer ranks - it seems there are few within the navy who quite get the purpose of them...

[Commander Ramey]

I have to point something out here from military experience again. I think you all ignore me at this point, but what they hay, its a slow night ha ha.

Petty officers are Non Commisioned Officers (NCOs) while Warrent Officers (WOs) are actually commissioned. However, the reason for the warrent officers is that they are not goverened by the laws that limit (yes we have treaties and laws regulateing the size of our commissioned officer force) commissioned officers. They are also sometimes directly promoted to WO from civilians because of some very specialized and very technical traning that the military needs and doesn't want to contract out. However, the main reason WO's are probably still around is that they are known as specialists. WO's in the Army are THE Subject Matter Experts (SME's) in their field. If you need to bounce a tight beam radio transmission from one side of the planet without a satellite to the other, go to a communications WO. They can do ANYTHING . Now... In Star Trek its fairly obvious that the laws no longer apply probably, but they are still the SME's. They are also not in the chain of command, unless one is the commander. There may be five WO's in a unit, and 3 NCO's, and a dozen Enlisted people for instance, and only the one WO that is the commander has any real "command responsability" and then it goes to the NCO's. That lets them do their job, which is working miricles in their chosen field and limits their training in the finer points on leadership. Obviously if they tell a NCO to do something, they do it, but they don't have to fool with the paperwork and buracracy of command. They are also groomed from the ranks of the enlisted people and have worked in their field for quite some time. It's odd to find a young WO, but not unheard of.

Ok everyone that was my longest post ever. I would like to stress that is just the way they work now days, and my take on them so the Petty Officers don't get slighted and yes I am sure that was in no way anyones intention Hope this long winded post is taken with the good intentions it's intended to be taken with and maybe everyone makes a wrinkle in their brain as they learn something new . I know I learn every day I check up on the posts on here!

[Commander Ramey]

Good GRIEF I didn't realize I rambled that long! SORRY EVERYONE!

[Highway Hoss]

Originally posted by Commander Ramey: Good GRIEF I didn't realize I rambled that long! SORRY EVERYONE!

Don't be sorry, man. That post was very informative...I wouldn't be suprised if Starfleet comissioned civilan specialists with those ranks in the 24th century.

[qerlin]

Historical point of view: warrant officers were originally crew that were 'warranted' a position due to their duties -- paymaster, quartermaster, or some such. It was always more common in land forces. Warrant officers were not commissioned officers; they could be created on the spot by a commanding officer for whatever position needed filled & required more responsibility that warranted a common seaman or NCO.

I use this perspective for my WO's in the campaign -- of which we have a lot. These are the ranks given civilian augmentees, etc. on our ship, as well as enlisted that deserve a promotion to officer, but the ship's either too far from the core worlds for the person to attend the academy or for some reason couldn't gain admission (since for a while, it seemed they were truning people away, no matter how talented [the first time W.Crusher applied].)

[toadkiller]

The reason that many would like to do away with them is - why not just make them regular commisioned officers?

Speaking from my experience: I have two neighbors that were until recently enlisted (both Chiefs). One was commisioned as an Ensign the other as a WO - in different fields.

Now - the Ensign makes more money, has more rank/authority, etc. Both have people that work for them, are considered experts in their field, etc.

Basically it is just two different ways to reward a good Chief, although many Chiefs would consider either route not be a "promotion" claiming (with merit) that no higher form of life exisits than "The Chief" . A traditional difference was that a WO was a technical expert who did not have the needed college degree to be a "regular officer". These days that is rarely a major deal as many enlisted folks have a BS or even an advanced degree. Doing away with WO would simply allow for a slight reduction in complexity in a very complex organization.

Not saying that having them in a game is bad - one could come up with very good reasons for doing so. Just that the traditional roles are not likely to remain - most of there services are leaning towards getting rid of them just to reduce complexity.

[qerlin]

Warrant officers also have none of the usual officer responsibilities -- the paperwork, formations, leadership issues. They just do their job. (Or, in the case of my WOs in intelligence, sit in the SKIF and watched MTV while everyone else is out on the motor pool.)