Of Explorers, Cruisers and Dreadnoughts

[Game Show Man]

Friends:

This one's been bothering me for a while.

As you may be aware, in CODA Trek, the classic Constitution-class ships have reverted to their original designation as Heavy Cruisers. However, such a reversion now leaves the door open for much larger TOS-era ships, such as the Federation-class vessel, a non-canonical three warp-nacelled monster from the original Star Fleet Technical Manual designated as a Dreadnought. If such a vessel were used in the Starfleet we know, it could not possibly be designated as a Dreadnought, as no such designation exists in Starfleet nomenclature. But judging from the size and firepower of the classic Consititutions, and that of the Federations, it could also not possibly be a Heavy Cruiser either (as its VOY-era counterpart, the Prometheius, seems to be, judging from Steve Long's SRM #1). And it certainly could not be called an Explorer, since it does not seem to be built for such a purpose as the traditional Starfleet exploratory missions.

So what exactly would one categorize a Federation-class starship as, using the system of categorization we are familar with?

[calguard66]

The short answer is: it doesn't fit within the traditionally accepted Starfleet ship classifications.

The "warm and fuzzy" branch of Starfleet fans would never accept such a design.

The more practical among us (read: more military-oriented) would simply call it what it is: a dreadnought or battleship. If we're bending the rules enough to allow the existance of the ship, we certainly can bend them to allow the designation.

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by calguard66
If we're bending the rules enough to allow the existance of the ship, we certainly can bend them to allow the designation.

The designation already exists in the NG. You guys really do worry about some of the strangest things.

[edit]
Er, I should say, the classifications (currently) exist--what you choose to do with them is up to you. Again, we provide the tools, you use them as you see fit.

Warships
Battleship (BA)
Dreadnought (DR)
Fast Attack (FAS)
Fighter (FX)
Explorers
Explorer (EX)
Heavy (EXH)
Light (EXL)
Cruisers
Cruiser (CA)
Battle Cruiser (CB)
Exploratory Cruiser (CEX)
Heavy Cruiser (CH)
Light Cruiser (CL)

[Sea Tyger]

You guys really do worry about some of the strangest things.

Well, you know, Don, we tech geeks need to obsess over something.

Do you know if these changes originated from within Decipher or Paramount (like reverting the Constitution-class back to a heavy cruiser)?

I remember that the Excelsior was originally classified a battleship in FASA (I understand that Paramount handled the license differently then); did many ships in Coda change their designation from Icon?

[Game Show Man]

Battleship (BA)
Dreadnought (DR)
Fast Attack (FAS)
Fighter (FX)
Explorers
Explorer (EX)
Heavy (EXH)
Light (EXL)
Cruisers
Cruiser (CA)
Battle Cruiser (CB)
Exploratory Cruiser (CEX)
Heavy Cruiser (CH)
Light Cruiser (CL)

I always liked the idea of the "Exploratory Cruiser." Don't think I'd classify a Connie as one. I'll stick with everyone else on the Heavy Cruiser designation. As to the Federations, maybe I'll designate them as Battle Cruisers. I could see Starfleet designating ships as battle cruisers, but not battleships or dreadnoughts. Still quite nifty that one can designate a ship what they want to (just as long as their not dumb enough to call a Connie a frigate (notice I didn't say Miranda there. You can refer to the Mirandas as the Avenger-class Heavy Frigate if you want to. Other folks do.).

The correct abbreviation for Battleship is (BB), BTW.

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Game Show Man
The correct abbreviation for Battleship is (BB), BTW.

I know. Typo.

[tonyg]

If the Constitution-class is a Heavy Crusier (CA), then if not a DN , the (fairly similar) Federation-class would probably be a Battle Crusier (BC) .

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Sea Tyger
Well, you know, Don, we tech geeks need to obsess over something.

Hey, I’m not faulting anyone! I just found it amusing.

Do you know if these changes originated from within Decipher or Paramount (like reverting the Constitution-class back to a heavy cruiser)?

I simply wrote it up that way for a couple of reasons: a) I wanted to go back to the old days of the original Technical Manual, b) give a nod to the more militaristic Starfleet of TOS (General Order 24 anyone?), and c) try to earn points with Ken Hite.

I remember that the Excelsior was originally classified a battleship in FASA (I understand that Paramount handled the license differently then); did many ships in Coda change their designation from Icon?

I couldn’t say. No concerted effort was done on my part to examine Icon ships when making them for Coda. In fact, I don’t think I cracked one Icon book during those write-ups. I tried to stick to canon sources as much as possible.

I’m not making much of a leap when I say I doubt you’ll see any BBs or DRs being fielded in Starfleet anytime soon in an official product.

It’s worth noting that until the final manuscript/book is approved by Paramount, anything can change. The Constitution may not be a Heavy Cruiser anymore, so this conversation may be moot…

[Game Show Man]

If the Constitution-class is a Heavy Crusier (CA), then if not a DN , the (fairly similar) Federation-class would probably be a Battle Crusier (BC) .

That's what I said! Silly people. And that's "Cruiser," not "Crusier." (Sorry. I don't mean to be anal. I'm just trying to be helpful.)

[NobAkimoto]

Why is it so hard to imagine that over the course of a century Starfleet would streamline/change their vessel categorization?

I mean look at the past 100 years of naval progress and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

[Eric R.]

Having looked at the Federation Class Dreadnaught's deck plans I have no problem what so ever saying the ship could have been a 23rd century era explorer, perhaps the first of her kind and thats the way I have used it ever since. Now each type serves a specific function in my book and any conversation on them is grondless unless you include that. For instance what would be the difference between a dreadnaught and battleship? the only reson the word dreadnaught exist is because a ship which was so revolutionary in her type disgniated a parting point from those built before her (pre-Dreadnaught Battleships) and then after (Dreadnaught era battlships). At the same time the US Super fast battlships (North Dokata, Iowa and Montana Classes) equaly revolutionary in there won right did not change the type disgnation in the same way as HMS Dreadnaught had. It is quite possible that Earth Ship designers hadno better term in the 21st century to disgnate a ship larger than the NX class (which we will assume to be a light cruiser here) as a dreadnaught or battleship that these ships continued to be designed and commssioned until a ship so revolutionary came along that it changed the type name from dreadnaught to exploer, USS Explorer anybody?

Its mission to express both the exploratory and defense mission of the federation in one single package to convey both the peaceful but prepared posture of the people of the flag she flys.

[Ineti]

Um...could someone point me in the direction of where I can find information on what these classes are and what their...mission profile is? I don't know the difference between one or the other.

[Game Show Man]

Um...could someone point me in the direction of where I can find information on what these classes are and what their...mission profile is? I don't know the difference between one or the other.

Ineti:

The Constitution-class, as you probably know but likely have forgotten, is what the TOS Enterprise belonged to. Originally designated as Heavy Cruisers in the classic Star Fleet Technical Manual, many many years ago, the LUG Trek gang, now the CODA Trek gang, decided to redesignate them as Explorers, by the canon (official and established) classification system, the largest and most powerful ships in the fleet. Most hardcore Trekkies prefer the Heavy Cruiser designation, but as Don says above, its designation is what you say it is.

The Federation-class ships are also from the old Technical Manual, and are large vessels with three warp nacelles and more firepower than the Constitutions. They are technically non-canon ships, and are classified as Dreadnoughts. The confusion is primarily coming from me, in that there is no such thing as a Dreadnought in the canon classification system of Starfleet (remember, the Defiant, from DS9, is the first actual warship fielded by Starfleet).

Both ships can be found in the aformentioned Star Fleet Technical Manual by Franz Joseph Designs. It's not that easy to find, but it's still very cool. It is also the basis for a rather infamous space combat game. However, you will have to find information pertaining to THAT elsewhere.

[Ineti]

Thanks, but let me ask the question another way:

What's the difference between an "Explorer" class and a "Dreadnought" class and a "Heavy cruiser" class? That's what I'm confused on.

I mean, yeah, the navy has battleships, cruisers, frigates, and so on, but what makes a ship fit the class they're in?

[Eric R.]

Actually its type not class think of it as a Ford Pickup truck as the type and S350 as the class.

As to what does the various ship tpes do rough goes like this:

Battleship/Dreadnaught a ship capable of both heavy firepower and ability to withstand heavy damage. Used for the main and big battles with the enemy fleet and to impress the natives with your power.

Curiser a ship design with high speed and good firepower with somehwat decent protection used for both independant operations by itself and to operate with the bigger battleships.

Frigates originally good firpower and good protection to operate in similar roles as the cruiser but at lesser ranges. Since WWII, both Frigates and Destroyers have become merged into one type

Escort/Scout/Destroyers ships design to operate in both groups and independantly with moderate firepower and high speed at the expense of protection, these ships are design with patrol missions in mind.

Heavy means either Firepower or aility to withstand Damage or both is given priority.

Fast means the ship has high speed (usually at the cost of Protection.)

Light means either firepower or protection is reduced in favor of the other (usually protection is short changed for firepower)

Battle means the ships is designed with high priority to particiapate in a stand up fleet battle.

Explorer within Starfleet seems to mean longer range and higher portection at the cost of firepower.