BRAGA accuses rabid fans, calls them "Continuity Pornographers"

[Dan Stack]

I agree with the "YMMV" comment. I can see, for example, what many fans dislike about the Vulcans in Enterprise. But for me, that's one of my favorite parts, the place where I feel they have been the boldest.

[Ineti]

Hmm...considering that use of the word, can I call my boss an "employee pornographer?"

On second thought, never mind.

At any rate, Braga can say all he wants. The continuity police of the world will continue to speak their piece. Everyone's gotta have a hobby.

[qerlin]

Originally posted by Dan Stack
I agree with the "YMMV" comment. I can see, for example, what many fans dislike about the Vulcans in Enterprise. But for me, that's one of my favorite parts, the place where I feel they have been the boldest.

Dan! Say it ain't so! Y-y-y-you like the way they're doing Vyulcans? But they've always been the good guys! The universe is static, it doesn't change. I fear change!



Actually, I like the tack they've taken with the Vulcans. Ineti has anoterh post on reinventing Trek -- well, here you go. Think of it as a remake of the original show, just different. There were a LOT of really bad TOS episodes, so if .Enterprise is weak for time to time, it's in good company.

The continuity thing. They didn't even try for continuity in TOS, TNG tried but wasn't terribly consistent, either. Voyager's continuity was pathetic as well...what continuity?

It's a freakin TV show written by a bunch of people. Unless you have one or a very few writers working together -- ala Babylon 5 -- you're not gonna have real continuity. And B5 screwed up from time to time too.

The fans, it seems to me, just like an excuse to bitch

[LizardQueen]

Originally posted by qerlin
...The fans, it seems to me, just like an excuse to bitch

I think that's got a lot to do with it. For myself, I've actually never met a Star Trek series I didn't like (individual episodes are a different story). But I also tend not to notice the missed continuity much. Occasionally I do, but it doesn't bother me much. I've seen those kind of violations in other TV shows and books; I just figure it's fiction, and the primary purpose is to tell a story.

I also like the way they're doing the Vulcans in Enterprise; all arrogant, obnoxious, and superior. It's interesting to think that humans have influenced Vulcans as much as Vulcans have influenced humans. (and as for the Vulcans being too emotional, to be honest, they have never seemed completely unemotional to me in ANY series!)

[First of Two]

I don't know if 'continuity pornographers' is as accurate as, say...
"continuity fetishists?"

Seriously, it seems sometimes as though there's certain people who can't enjoy something if it's outside that tiny little box, and I get this mental picture of some weasly geek sitting somewhere cranking it wildly saying "OOH... continuity...UNNH..."


First "sick, just sick!" of Two

[REG]

Uh-oh. This thread I started is turning into a pro-Braga organization.

As for the term, while "pornographer" has different meanings (thank you, Dan Stack), none stand out more than what is usually applied in today's society.

[Sho-sa Kurita]

Originally posted by First of Two
I don't know if 'continuity pornographers' is as accurate as, say...
"continuity fetishists?"

You just read my mind...plus you can say it in 'polite' company

[Lt.Khrys Antos]

I'll just start and say that I didn't like VOY that much nor do I like ENT, I do watch some of the episodes, but I make sure I know what I can expect.

That said I think Braga may be right...for once. Arguing about when the such and such a race was met is silly. What would be completely idiotic would be to have quantum torpedoes and EMH's running around the ship-now that would be something. I still expect to see some time travel episodes where they meet the future Starfleet.

I actually like the Vulcans in ENT (one of the few things), I figure that the next generation of Vulcans gets used to emotional creatures walking all about.

Anyway, what's to say that it didn't actually happen the way ENT shows it? Maybe the future TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY generations got it all wrong and the historical files were all written poorly and vaguely. Take the Ferengis, entry could note:"Species with big ears and greedy"-that could describe almost ANY race out there.

On the other hand, Braga is running a franchise that alot of people have come accustomed to seeing a certain way. He should expect some flames and insults, I'm surprised it doesn't just roll of his back.

[Phantom]

IMHO, it has everything to do with the story. If someone was to make the same type of changes to a story like Lord of The Rings wouldn't 99% of Tolkiens fans be up in arms?

They have changed the history of Trek so much with Ent it no longer resembles what the series has laid down in the last 30 or so years. If B&B wanted to make a "new" series why didn't they come up with their own premise...Oh wait, that would require imagination and talent. So, what they have done is re-make Trek in their own image, and doing a really sucky job of it.

[First of Two]

What history of Trek?

Didn't each new episode that mentioned "such-and-so happened 200 years ago" 'change Trek history?'

Doesn't the fact that there's no evidence of any "Eugenics Wars" and no "Voyager 6" (and so "Leningrad" anymore) 'change Trek history?'

Yeah, man. TOS sucks, they make up history.

Since there's very little 'canon' material at all, (as close to 'null return' as one could expect) how can we be SOOOOOOO certain that history is being messed with at all?

*I'm waiting to hear in ENT that the Vulcans get 'conquered' by someone at some point to establish continuity with one of McCoy's early offhand remarks in TOS. BUt it won't happen because continuity is an illusion.

[REG]

Sorry, but I'm not a TOS denier. Despite its flaws, this is the show that started everything and gained a cult following.

[Dan Stack]

I don't believe the comparison with Lord of the Rings is 100%valid - it did not have to be deilvered one chapter every week or two and after chapters were written they could be changed - heck the Hobbit was modified to better fit in with Lord of the Rings.

A more valid comparison would be with Babylon 5, which, it should be noted, suffered from the occasional continuity glitch. And even Babylon 5, if examined under the same microscope that Star Trek often is, would provide ample ammunition for those wishing to find flaws.


Me, I'm just a guy who likes to watch Enterprise on Wednesday night. I'm also a guy who didn't watch Voyager regularly. Didn't care for it that much. Do I have to declare my allegiance for or against Braga based on that?

Personally, I prefer some of the other writers and producers - for example I rather enjoyed the years that Behr and Wolfe ran DS9. But DS9 seemed to slip a little after Wolfe left and Andromeda, while entertaining under Wolfe, wasn't as good in my opnion as the work they did on DS9. Similarly, I admired the knowledge and dedication Ronald D. Moore brought to TNG and DS9, pretty much inventing the Klingon culture.

Berman, the 2nd-most hated man in Star Trek, is the one who took Roddenberry's vision of the 24th century and made it something watchable. Does anyone miss the zero conflict, "back in the 20th century people feared dying." aspects of the first season?

Braga I view as about average - maybe a touch above due to episodes like "Cause and Affect" (Captain Frasier Crane) and "Parallels" - crisis of the infinite Worfs. And like I said, I like the portrayal of Vulcans on Enterprise. He did have the misfortune of teaching us that Warp 10 = Mutate into Salamander which drops him down a few dozen pegs... I'd probably prefer someone else in charge. He does have a tendency to say some explosive things - sometimes I suspect he does it just to get a rise out of people (a motive I'd have to respect in a twisted way... ) I just don't get the absolute total hatred he inspires. You'd think he was the living embodiment of the Good Times virus.

[erhershman]

WARNING... LONG RANT... MAY CAUSE EYESTRAIN.


First of all, Braga's point is about 1 billion percent accurate. The continuity-hugging fans are getting a bit barbaric towards Enterprise, and although his language is a bit drastic, I agree with him totally.

People who have done nothing but criticize Enterprise since it came on don't seem to realize that B&B are NOT responsible for every single thing that happens on the show.

If the acting is bad, it means that Bakula or Blalock or whoever was having a bad day.

If the writing is bad, it's usually the fault of the writer of that episode.

If the special effects are cheesy, blame the Production department, not the producers.

The list goes on...

The continuity diehards also don't seem to realize that B&B are under a lot more pressure than we seem to think: first of all, they are under the pressure from the network. Paramount couldn't give a hoot about satisfying actual Star Trek fans, and is more concerned with getting as many viewers as possible, Trekkies or not. This usually means puttings as much explicit sex, nudity, and violence on the show as possible without having to increase the TV rating to TV14. Get used to this, fans, it's not going to change while televison is a form of marketing.

Second, they are under pressure from idiotic reviewers and ratings people like the TV critic from the Seattle Times, who is a true critic in the sense of the word, in that she has never said anything nice about anything Star Trek.

Finally, they are of course under pressure from us, the fans, who are expecting them to create an excellent show in its own right, as well as continue the legacy of Star Trek we've all come to know and love.

So give B&B a break. And next time you feel like Enterprise bashing, try this when you sit down to watch the show:

Turn on the TV... Sing along with the theme song, even if you hate it... make fun of the commercials... laugh at your best friend who goes nuts over Jolene Blalock's figure... do bad imitations of the captain's dog... Make fun of Mayweather's dialogue because it's so badly written... pretend to help the crew phaser down those aliens...

And above all, sit back, relax, and enjoy what I consider to be the best Trek show since TNG. I am a huge fan of Enterprise, and I would watch it even if I was the only person in the world who did. [That's how I feel sometimes anyway... ]

[Doug Burke]

Originally posted by Lt.Khrys Antos
On the other hand, Braga is running a franchise that alot of people have come accustomed to seeing a certain way. He should expect some flames and insults, I'm surprised it doesn't just roll of his back.

I don't know. If I had to put up with all the crap that people have thrown at Brannon Braga for the past seven years, i would have gone postal long before now.

Personally, I agree with Dan. Some days they're on, and some days they're off. Cut them some slack!

The way I see it, dismissing two professionals doing their job the best they can in an effort to entertain others as nothing les than the antichrists of show business is just plain wrong.

It is also wrong, IMO, to likewise dismiss their work out of hand simply becuase they did it, or because it is a different interpretation of what we knew before, or because it had one or two scenes that stressed the "sexy" quotient of one or more characters.

But that's just me. Everyone is, of course, entitled to their own opinion.

Okay. I'm done ranting now. Nothing to see here. Move along, move along...

[Lt.Khrys Antos]

Posted by erhershman:

Turn on the TV... Sing along with the theme song, even if you hate it... make fun of the commercials... laugh at your best friend who goes nuts over Jolene Blalock's figure... do bad imitations of the captain's dog... Make fun of Mayweather's dialogue because it's so badly written... pretend to help the crew phaser down those aliens...

LOL

Hey...I already do that.