Television coverage of "War on Terrorism" F-up

[The Tatterdemalion King]

I was wondering, how much coverage of the death of the four Canadians in Afghanistan has there been in America?

And also, what punishment would the fighter pilot get, anyway?

[Eric R.]

Plenty the US Media loves to cover US Military mistakes. But before you go off and hang the pilot what about the officer who who approved puting them over the area in the first place, what activity was going on on the ground (A backblst from a MPL might have looked like a SAM firing to the pilot) and on and on.

[Doktor Evil]

Many say that US forces have serious problems because they keep committing blunders. In the Gulf War more US troops were killed by friendly fire than by enemy fire. Look at episodes like the US submarine that hit a Japanese boat, the fighter that crashed into a group of skiers in Italy, the attack on the USS Cole and now this... But I'm dead sure that in conflicts like the Civil War, WWI and 2, Korea and Vietnam the casualties caused either by friendly fire or errors were catastrophic; especially in the battles of epic proportions in wars like WWII. Also, you have to consider the scope of US forces : they are huge AND everywhere. Its hard for the Danish air force to look bad when you have 70 F-16 fighters; you can't crash 20 of those per year. But I suspect that the rate or percentage of such accidents might be higher with US forces. The British and the French, for instance, have troops or ships around the globe yet they don't seem to be invloved in such accidents.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

I just wanted to know what the procedure would be here.

[Doktor Evil]

While I was typing my post, I heard people on the news talk about the tragedy. It sounds like a whole battalion died yesterday. Talk about a f-u sense of proportions here... There was an NCO (who DIDN'T know personally the dead soldiers... and wasn't even from the same regiment) saying how "down" everybody was, etc. Is it me or people nowadays have become all weashy-washy and can't cope with loss? Well if you're afraid to die or to see your comrades fall, then don't go into the goddamed army in the first place Instead go sell bolts at Canadian Tire. Guys like that would have lost their minds, literally, in conflicts like WWII where people were droping left and right. Well, that's what happens when you're more concerned about making your armed forces politically correct than effective; you end up with companies full of people who don't belong.

[qerlin]

Sorry, the Danes look plenty bad...Srebrencia.

As for military clusterf**ks, when you play with stuff that goes 'boom', even small accidents are pretty impressive.

The pilot's reaction seems to me to be totally out of bounds...but did he know there was an exercise? What were the boys on the ground playing with? Certain weapons signatures might've led him to conclude he was in danger. What were his rules of engagement? He might've mistaken them for Taliban/al-Qaida & if his orders were open for targets fo opportunity, he might have been operating inside his ROE. But even so, he should have marked his target before dropping a 500 lb bomb.

However, it was 2am over there. Even with night vision equipment, he's not going to get an accurate picture of the targets omn the ground. 2am is really stinking early! If they're handling this like Bosnia -- and I would say they are -- the pilots aren't getting the mandated 8 hours of rest; they're probably flying far too many missions during the day. Ever spend the whole day driving? How observant are you at 2am if you've been working or driving all day?

I'm not letting the pilot off the hook. I think he screwed up royally. But before the Canadians bomb the Baldwins in retaliation, take those points into consideration. Military service is DANGEROUS!! Even the mundane day in garrison can be hazardous, depnding on what you're doing.

There will be an investigtion. The pilot will most likely get off light, just like they let the idiot marines who dropped the cable car in Italy off light. Personally, were I the officer in charge, the guy would go down, if only for good blood with the Canadians.

And yes, Dr. Evil...most military people are nowhere near as tough as they used to be.

[Captain Leana Craig]

In the news over here in the UK, the pilots ROE was that he could mark targets only. To drop any ordinance, he had to get permission from HQ.

[Captain Leana Craig]

Here is a couple of links on the subject.

Canadian Casualties

Friendly Fire

[Highway Hoss]

When it comes to friendly fire, the media has all the attention span of a coked-up ferret. Friendly Fire has been an occupational hazard of war since man first waged war. During the American Civil War, units in the heat of battle sometimes mistakenly fired on their own troops. Two Confederate Generals, "Stonewall" Jackson and James Longstreet, were shot by their own troops by mistake. In WWII, British Swordfish bombers hunting for the Bismarck attacked a British cruiser by mistake. Air Combat was full of cases of mistaken identity. The Gulf War is only the most recent example of this phenonmenon.<p>What people fail to realize is that war is a chaotic and messy undertaking and in the heat of battle, mistakes are bound to happen.

Originally posted by Doktor Evil:
Is it me or people nowadays have become all weashy-washy and can't cope with loss? Well if you're afraid to die or to see your comrades fall, then don't go into the goddamed army in the first place Instead go sell bolts at Canadian Tire. Guys like that would have lost their minds, literally, in conflicts like WWII where people were dropping left and right. Well, that's what happens when you're more concerned about making your armed forces politically correct than effective; you end up with companies full of people who don't belong.

No kidding. Clinton, when he was in office. has emasculated our forces to the point where they have become a shadow of themselves.

[tonyg]

Hoss,

The "emsculation" of the armed forces isn't due to Clinton, but can be traced back to the media. Look at Viet Nam.

With the war in Arganistan, the first US casulaty was treated win an inordiante amount of coverage, maginfiying the event. It is certainly unfornatate with someone dies in battle. It is also part of war. It shouldn't be treated the same a domestic shooting, with details at 11.

[Phantom]

As I heard the new the pilot did mark the target, the flight officer warned him off target, the pilot then engaged.

Now I m not saying that the pilot should be hanged or anything like that, but there had better damned sure be some serious sanctions against him. As well as who ever should have let the other forces know the area was a training range.

Yes it is a tragedy, but it is war. Soldiers fight, and die...It is the main part of the job description. Honour them, then move on and keep fighting.

I would like to express my sympathy to the families of these men. It may be small consolation, but they are heros in the truest sense of the word.

[Doktor Evil]

Ok... I think by now most folks have figured that I'm obviously not here to win a popularity contest. So it won't come as a surprise when I say this:

Being killed in a friendly fire accident doesn't make you a hero. Of course my condolensces go to the victim's families and yes, it does take a certain amount of courage to be sent away in a warzone.

[Greg Smith]

A similar incident happened during the Gulf war when a US A10 shot up a British APCs full of troops killing nine men. There was no official apology, any investigation was carried out behind closed doors and it was all pretty much swept under the carpet by both the British and US Governments.

[First of Two]

News reports I've heard say that there are Afghani soldiers who witnessed the thing, and they saw tracer fire going from the ground towards the plane.

Do you think it's possible that someone on the ground was shooting at the plane, TRYING to get it to return fire? Maybe an Al-Qaeda infiltrator in the same area?

[Dan Stack]

C. Huth,

Just curious... What is your opinon on all this? (i.e. what is proper coverage, what should be done to the pilot, should it be treated differently than US on US Friendly Fire incident of early December, etc.)